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Tax Reform Panel Picks Apart FairTax Proposal
Tax Analyists ^ | 5/12/2005

Posted on 05/12/2005 7:46:54 PM PDT by Your Nightmare

Members of the President's Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform on May 11 expressed concerns over the FairTax national retail sales tax, a plan that has emerged as an alternative with a major grass-roots push.

Panel chair Connie Mack, vice chair John B. Breaux, and other members worried the plan would be difficult to enforce, would be regressive, and would require a high rate in order to take in enough money to fund the government.

Breaux raised concerns that the proposed 23 percent (tax-inclusive) rate would not be sufficient to raise the revenue necessary to fund the government. The Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that it would take as much as a 57 percent (tax-exclusive) rate to be revenue-neutral. Further, Breaux said he thought exemptions that would be carved out to make the sales tax progressive would also complicate it.

Mack, who raised concerns similar to his fellow panelists', said he was "intrigued" by the plan. "But if it's such a great idea, why haven't other political entities around the world pursued it?" he asked.

Americans for Fair Taxation Executive Director Tom Wright emphasized that the plan emerged after "thorough academic research" and "thorough polling" The strong grass-roots push has resulted in some of the group's 600,000 members appearing at each of the panel's hearings and has inspired a large comment-writing campaign to the panel in support of the plan.

Sales tax advocates were among the 20 witnesses who gathered before the panel for a full day of testimony on tax reform proposals. Although the group has held several other hearings in Washington and around the country, the May 11 meeting was its first hearing on specific reform plans since Bush appointed the panel in January. The panel has been charged with identifying tax reform proposals that are progressive, encourage charitable giving and home purchases, and are revenue-neutral. The proposals are due by July 31.

Among the tax replacement and reform plans presented to the panel were the value added tax, consumption-based tax, and the flat tax, as well as proposals that would use the current income tax as the foundation.

Witnesses generally claimed that theirs was the fairest, simplest, most flexible, most transparent revenue-neutral proposal that would improve economic growth and savings while meeting the president's criteria of encouraging charitable giving and home buying. Witnesses presenting consumption-based plans praised their overhaul as taking millions of low-income taxpayers off the rolls, being easy to transition to on a worldwide basis, and including safeguards to prevent new loopholes that would result in increased complexity down the road.

Tax reform panel members, who agree the current tax system needs to be fixed, grilled witnesses without revealing whether they will ultimately endorse a consumption- or income-based tax or a different mixture of the two.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: fairtax; flimflam; scientology; snakeoil; taxes; taxreform; taxscam
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To: lewislynn
I'm not for a National sales tax.

I prefer a tax on money.

See my previous post.

161 posted on 05/15/2005 7:04:08 PM PDT by Radioactive (I'm on the radio..so I'm radioactive)
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To: pigdog
When the crisis comes, things will change, and we will be stuck with two tax systems.

You have been warned.

162 posted on 05/15/2005 7:44:49 PM PDT by hripka (There are a lot of smart people out there in FReeperLand)
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To: kevkrom

I take it then that you understand HOW tax law is written? What goes in, and what comes out, are two different things.


163 posted on 05/15/2005 7:46:35 PM PDT by hripka (There are a lot of smart people out there in FReeperLand)
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To: Principled
Oh I see... your exact words were different, but pay no attention to that eh? LOL
WTF are you talking about? You are total mental nut case. You said I "fabricated what CC said" when I most certainly did not. I simply asked her [exact words] "Any specifics of this report you want to point out as being biased?"

Squirm all you want. You are still nailed making accusation you can't back up...again! You are perfect for the FairTax crowd.
164 posted on 05/15/2005 8:05:44 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: Principled
By the way, what is 25 more than ZERO?!!!!
Oy. You remember seventh grade? The best two years of your life. Try to remember what they tried to teach you in math class about multiplying by zero.

Twenty-five is 25 more than zero. What is twenty-five percent more than zero? [Hint: go look in the mirror.]
165 posted on 05/15/2005 8:10:08 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: Your Nightmare
Breaux raised concerns that the proposed 23 percent (tax-inclusive) rate would not be sufficient to raise the revenue necessary to fund the government.

Then let the goddamn government find a way to cut back, just like Normals have to do.

Stop remodeling Frist's office, stop restocking Ted Kennedy's liquor cabinet.

And fire a couple hundred thousand of those stupid fat cows behind the gray steel desks.

166 posted on 05/15/2005 8:10:32 PM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: pigdog
I'll pay more with NRST because of several reasons. One, we will still have an income tax. If you are sure the IRS will be shut down and the income tax outlawed then you are clairvoyant and should head to your nearest casino and place some bets. Secondly, I have a lot of formerly earned wealth that I like to spend but under the income tax it isn't taxed now. With the NRST it will be as soon as I spend it. Can you imagine that, generation X'ers have figured out a way to tax the boomers in retirement. Can you beat that?
167 posted on 05/15/2005 8:20:32 PM PDT by Final Authority
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To: Final Authority
Can you imagine that, generation X'ers have figured out a way to tax the boomers in retirement. Can you beat that?

This is just another positive reason to support NRST/Fairtax. :D

168 posted on 05/15/2005 8:41:58 PM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Radioactive

Certainly they collect the tax, but they are in no way an "arm" of the government - and they are paid for their efforts.


169 posted on 05/15/2005 8:48:40 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: Radioactive

Indeed I saw your previous post but is seemed to fund only one year out of 10 which seems odd. Perhaps, though, you're trying to say the revenue neutral rate is 20% rather than 23%,

It would be interesting to see your arithmetic.


170 posted on 05/15/2005 8:51:47 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: hripka

And you, sadly, haven't read the FairTax bill.

Please do that.


171 posted on 05/15/2005 8:53:06 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: Final Authority

The FairTax will indeed do away with the income tax and, BTW, I don't go to casinos (can't afford it since the income tax has all my spare change.

The FairTax when passed will no doubt kick off the biggest spending boom in years from those in your position unless they decide to invest their money and get even richer - which would also boost an economic boom.


172 posted on 05/15/2005 8:58:12 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: Your Nightmare
Golly. You're very upset.

You worried you might have to start paying taxes?

173 posted on 05/16/2005 4:36:45 AM PDT by Principled
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To: lewislynn
The fairtax crowd silence is deafening on this thread.

On the third post you say that?

174 posted on 05/16/2005 4:41:34 AM PDT by SeeRushToldU_So (Flashback.)
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To: Principled
Golly. You're very upset.
I'm not upset. I actually enjoy catching you in your lies (although it's becoming less of a challenge all the time).
175 posted on 05/16/2005 5:42:55 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: Paul C. Jesup
There are no taxes that are good taxes, especially ones that are designed to reverse what was done before under the pretext that one was saving for retirement. There will be no fair tax but there probably will be a 3% NRST however. That to me, is still not as bad as the fair tax. That is exactly how the congress will see it as well. See, after the seniors get wind of the regressivity of the tax with respect to their savings and investments, and they haven't yet, there will be a revolt. They vote too.
176 posted on 05/16/2005 5:55:10 AM PDT by Final Authority
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To: pigdog
What would be my incentive in retirement, say in 15 years, under the so-called farttax (do me a favor and cite a legal definition for "fair") to spend money at a 30% premium where my income tax marginal rate hopefully will be at 15% and that will only be about 1/3 of the money I will be spending, so the net marginal rate will be 5%.

Let me see, do I want to be taxed 5% or do I want to be taxed 30%? Let me think for a minute. Na, I'll take the 5% and keep the rest of my money. (based on My cousin Vinnie) What do you think, the whole of the electorate is stupid. The only reason you have gotten this far is because your proposal isn't on the radar screen of nearly anybody yet. When it is it will be made sport of like what happened that the stage for the topic of this thread. There have been academic reviews by think tanks which ridicule may of the ideas of your proposals. At some point in time it will be so obvious it will be just funny that there are so many holes that this tax will never hold water and it won't go to the floor to be voted on either. However, you and your friends have greased the skids to give us a NRST of about 3%. That deed alone is unworthy of any American who believes in our free republic.
177 posted on 05/16/2005 6:08:28 AM PDT by Final Authority
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To: Your Nightmare
How is you misquoting CG catching me?

You were called for your misquote, and you won't own up to it.

It's the same pattern. Like the time you quoted parts of a paper to promote the idea that the FairTax rate was too low. But you left out the part of the paper that actually backs up the Fair Tax rate. What's 25% more than 0%? Remember that li'l gem?

178 posted on 05/16/2005 6:08:55 AM PDT by Principled
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To: Final Authority

May s/b many and it is "set the stage"


179 posted on 05/16/2005 6:12:30 AM PDT by Final Authority
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To: Final Authority

But when people are educated on the NRST HR 25, 70% (or something in the 70s) go for it.


180 posted on 05/16/2005 6:38:29 AM PDT by Principled
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