Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Scientists in the Kansas intelligent design hearings make their case public
AP ^ | 5/9/05 | John Hanna

Posted on 05/09/2005 11:35:25 PM PDT by Crackingham

While Kansas State Board of Education members spent three days soaking up from critics of evolution about how the theory should be taught in public schools, many scientists refused to participate in the board's public hearings. But evolution's defenders were hardly silent last week, nor are they likely to be Thursday, when the hearings are set to conclude. They have offered public rebuttals after each day's testimony. Their tactics led the intelligent design advocates -- hoping to expose Kansas students to more criticism of evolution -- to accuse them of ducking the debate over the theory. But Kansas scientists who defend evolution said the hearings were rigged against the theory. They also said they don't see the need to cram their arguments into a few days of testimony, like out-of-state witnesses called by intelligent design advocates.

"They're in, they do their schtick, and they're out," said Keith Miller, a Kansas State University geologist. "I'm going to be here, and I'm not going to be quiet. We'll have the rest of our lives to make our points."

The scientists' boycott, led by the American Association for the Advancement of Science and Kansas Citizens for Science, frustrated board members who viewed their hearings as an educational forum.

"I am profoundly disappointed that they've chosen to present their case in the shadows," said board member Connie Morris, of St. Francis. "I would have enjoyed hearing what they have to say in a professional, ethical manner."

Intelligent design advocates challenge evolutionary theory that natural chemical processes can create life, that all life on Earth had a common origin and that man and apes had a common ancestor. Intelligent design says some features of the natural world are best explained by an intelligent cause because they are well ordered and complex. The science groups' leaders said Morris and the other two members of the board subcommittee presiding at the hearings already have decided to support language backed by intelligent design advocates. All three are part of a conservative board majority receptive to criticism of evolution. The entire board plans to consider changes this summer in standards that determine how students will be tested statewide in science.

Alan Leshner, AAAS chief executive officer, dismissed the hearings as "political theater."

"There is no cause for debate, so why are they having them?" he said. "They're trying to imply that evolution is a controversial concept in science, and that's absolutely not true."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: crevolist; science
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180 ... 621-637 next last
To: AmishDude
It means biology is a soft science that should not be taken seriously.

Oh. So much for ID then. I've yet to see a single equation in ID literature.
141 posted on 05/10/2005 7:56:53 AM PDT by crail (Better lives have been lost on the gallows than have ever been enshrined in the halls of palaces.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852
Excellent points. Do you ever feel like you're swimming against the tide? I know I do.>>

Nah, I have already read the completed short review of cosmic history. My side wins.
142 posted on 05/10/2005 7:58:57 AM PDT by chronic_loser
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 102 | View Replies]

To: chronic_loser
One scientist is not science. Crick said that, and the evidence hasn't been forthcoming, or convincing. Lots of scientists say crazy stuff, but unless they publish it, with evidence, and the evidence stands up, it isn't further considered.

As an example, Brian Josephson, of Nobel prize in physics fame, claims to have evidence of ESP. The evidence is flimzy. While his is a very talented physicist, his claims of ESP do not stand. Even in spite of the authority a Nobel prize gives one. Simple as that.
143 posted on 05/10/2005 8:01:19 AM PDT by crail (Better lives have been lost on the gallows than have ever been enshrined in the halls of palaces.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 140 | View Replies]

To: crail

I just think biologists are intimidated by the word "intelligent".


144 posted on 05/10/2005 8:01:58 AM PDT by AmishDude (Join the AmishDude fan club: "Very well put, AD. As usual." -- Howlin; "ROFL!" -- Dan from Michigan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 141 | View Replies]

To: chronic_loser

LOL


145 posted on 05/10/2005 8:02:35 AM PDT by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies]

To: crail
Penn & Teller, the famous "bad boys of magic" have had a television series, now in its third season, on Showtime. Two full seasons are available on DVD, and make an excellent "critical thinking" course in an uncommonly entertaining fashion. Season One, for example, takes up the following: Talking to the Dead, Alternative Medicine, Alien Abductions, Second Hand Smoke, End Of The World, Baby Bullsh*t, Sex, Sex, Sex, Feng Shui, Bottled Water, Creationism, Self-Helpless, ESP, Eat This!, Ouija Boards, Near Death Experiences, and Environmental Hysteria.

Here's Showtime's description of the upcoming (3rd season), show:

New Episode
Monday, May 16th at 10 pm ET/PT
Today, it's hip to have a therapist. In fact, you're really "in" if you skip doc's diagnosis and head straight to a "Life Coach" for motivation. The training of psychologists, psychiatrists and other mental health "professionals" does little or nothing to make them better equipped as counselors or therapists. We'll reveal the bullsh*t that Freud made famous, and we'll find out what the experts think about the degree to which drug therapy is being used. Is it really helping? Or, are we over-medicating our way to an unknown future.

We'll expose the truth behind the lucrative mind games industry, tracing its history to the father of psychoanalysis, Sigmund Freud. We'll weave our way through all the trends in psychobabble, including the latest scam, life coaching. We'll catch coaches in action as they celebrate International Coaching Week with an array of events and activities. To top it all off, we'll create our own psychotherapist and thread him throughout the show. Skip the therapy & coaching, talk to a good friend and take some notes during this episode of Bullsh*t!

Replacement of potentially objectionable vowels is mine.

146 posted on 05/10/2005 8:02:45 AM PDT by Gumlegs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852

I'll keep an open mind about ID or creationism when I see some actual evidence for it.


147 posted on 05/10/2005 8:03:27 AM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies]

To: Gumlegs

Sounds fun! I'll have to check it out!


148 posted on 05/10/2005 8:04:59 AM PDT by crail (Better lives have been lost on the gallows than have ever been enshrined in the halls of palaces.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 146 | View Replies]

To: crail
What kind of crazy school did you go to?!? Double blind experiments in math, worshiping biologists???

Maybe he went to a high school where the students weren't allowed to know what they were learning and the teachers weren't allowed to know what they were teaching.

149 posted on 05/10/2005 8:05:07 AM PDT by Gumlegs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Stochastic
"Some former GOP members believe that the Kansas fundamentalist would rather ally with Islamic terrorists rather than scientists."

That's quite a statement. Care to say which GOP members you are talking about so we could ask them? Or is it the old "anonymous sources" routine? You seem to be blowing this issue way out of proportion. What are you so afraid of?
150 posted on 05/10/2005 8:06:37 AM PDT by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 134 | View Replies]

To: AmishDude
The evidence is not taught, the conclusion is taught. Whatever evidence is presented to support the conclusion is weak at best at that level.

It may be hard to understand at the High School level, but it's not weak at any level. And there's no evidence for anything else.

151 posted on 05/10/2005 8:07:30 AM PDT by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 133 | View Replies]

To: AmishDude
If you don't understand mathematics than whatever you understand is only at the level of theology anyway.

It's nice to know that I write software that control spacecraft with ... theology.

Or is that witchcraft?

I've always been math challenged. I can get completly lost trying to understand graphic transformations that only have 10 variables or so. But I can keep the structure and varable list in my head of 20k lines of code.

152 posted on 05/10/2005 8:07:41 AM PDT by narby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 138 | View Replies]

To: Junior

You apparently missed my point. I didn't mention creationism. I meant keep an open mind about the theory of evolution (which of course is actually many theories covering many topics).


153 posted on 05/10/2005 8:08:40 AM PDT by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 147 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur
Add me to your list, please.

Done.

154 posted on 05/10/2005 8:09:04 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: crail
I have not ignored this VERY GOOD question. Thank you for showing that you at least understand my problems with this issue here, and asking a respectful question. This deserves an answer better than I can give composed on the fly while dealing with customers (I left chemistry over 14 years ago and own a small financial services firm). I will try to give a coherent, if not convincing, answer.

Again, thank you for showing that you are respectful of my position, even if you don't agree.
155 posted on 05/10/2005 8:09:28 AM PDT by chronic_loser
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 105 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852
Some former GOP members believe that the Kansas fundamentalist would rather ally with Islamic terrorists rather than scientists.

That statement will have legs within the Democratic base. The stupidity of the Kansas school board handed them this gem.

It certianly is an unjustified conclusion. But it WILL be successfully sold to the left.

156 posted on 05/10/2005 8:12:56 AM PDT by narby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: Gumlegs
the students weren't allowed to know what they were learning and the teachers weren't allowed to know what they were teaching.

No, I did not, in fact, major in biology.

157 posted on 05/10/2005 8:15:45 AM PDT by AmishDude (Join the AmishDude fan club: "Very well put, AD. As usual." -- Howlin; "ROFL!" -- Dan from Michigan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 149 | View Replies]

To: AmishDude
I was trying to work up a joke on "double-blind."

Obviously, it needs more work.

158 posted on 05/10/2005 8:17:58 AM PDT by Gumlegs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852

I keep an open mind about evolution too. Indeed, if something comes along that explains the evidence and observations of all those diverse scientific disciplines far better than evolution, and has evidence and observation to support it that does not also support evolution, I'll ditch ol' Darwin in a New York minute. However, I have yet to see any such coming out of those who sit on the sidelines and carp.


159 posted on 05/10/2005 8:18:56 AM PDT by Junior (“Even if you are one-in-a-million, there are still 6,000 others just like you.”)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies]

To: narby
I've always been math challenged. I can get completly lost trying to understand graphic transformations that only have 10 variables or so. But I can keep the structure and varable list in my head of 20k lines of code.

Then you clearly don't understand it. You're just hacking along to get the job done.

160 posted on 05/10/2005 8:20:18 AM PDT by AmishDude (Join the AmishDude fan club: "Very well put, AD. As usual." -- Howlin; "ROFL!" -- Dan from Michigan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 121-140141-160161-180 ... 621-637 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson