Posted on 04/25/2005 8:18:50 AM PDT by r5boston
It's Steve Jobs's plan to make this the Week of the Tiger. But Bill Gates and his minions at Microsoft are crying bull—specifically, a Longhorn steer. Despite the zoological bent, this dust-up is not about animals, but operating systems; Apple and Microsoft just happen to have named each of their major system upgrades after beasts of the realm. This Monday, Bill shows off the future of Windows, a.k.a. Longhorn, at a developers' conference. The oohs and aahs may be tempered by the fact that the hundreds of millions of Windows users won't get their hands on it until holiday season, 2006. (Unless it's even later.) On Friday, Jobs proudly presents the latest Macintosh OS X upgrade, named after that big striped cat that he always seems to have by the tail. When can the 25 million Mac users get their hands on Tiger? This year. This month. That day. Growwwl.
That's a big point for Apple in the latest matchup in high tech's equivalent to the rivalry between the Yankees and the Red Sox. Both companies seem to understand what's really necessary and really cool for the next stop in desktop computing: support for the powerful new generation of 64-bit chips that are coming online; search capabilities built in, so you can mine your own documents as smoothly as Google scans the Web; a suite of persistent, constantly updated tiny applications that keep track of stuff like weather and stock quotes. A way to take advantage of the hot RSS technology that lets you "subscribe" to Web sites instead of visiting them every day or two. And a sleek appearance that relegates the traditional file-and-folder metaphor to the antique shop. Both new systems go a long ways toward making that big step.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
Please search all Windows retlated posts, and see if you can find a single instance of a comment by me of any kind; positive, negative, flattering, abusive, neutral or humorous.
There are none.
You started this discussion with a fairly broad set of group judgements, so now you can live or die by the actions of your group. Don't like it? Maybe you won't be so quick to lump "PC users" together next time.
No, I don't lump all PC users. I am one, after all.
It's YOU I've complained about, in large part. You are the one tossing out invective, not me.
I agree completely with the analysis done by Swordmaker. There is a group, and you are one of them, who seem to have an unhealthy preoccupation with the computer choices of others.
I don't understand it, actually. I have wondered aloud if it is some kind of represzsed buyer's remorse. I just don't know.
I do know that the phenomenon is real, and even if there are one or two examples in the other direction, they can't and don't disguise the fact that overwhelmingly it is windows partisans slamming Mac users, not the other way round.
And its the personal dimension of many of these comments that we really don't appreciate. It's uncalled for.
And I reiterate that feeling here.
I know it's really difficult for the both of you to grasp this, but I don't care what you bought. I don't care that you like Macs. That doesn't bother me. I don't know how else to say it in such a way that you can grasp it. Maybe if I say it monosyllabically or something - me no care what you buy. Period. It doesn't concern me. What concerns me is the cult of victimhood that's taken root here. It's crap. That's what I'm on about here. You don't like the tone of some of what gets posted? Hey, neither do I, but unlike some, I'm willing to apply that to everyone.
True for me...
Then once again, I have to ask you as I have asked you before: Why are you here with your pesonal spew? Don't you have anything productive to do?
Yawn. It's apparently interesting enough that you keep posting to me.
And what do you call it when HAL9000 runs around tagging every Microsoft thread with the keyword "lowqualitycrap". Not some of them - ALL of them. You don't find that just a bit insulting? Where are you on that score? It's hardly a secret that he does it, but none of you manage a single peep on that score.
I would call that a prank, if true.
However, General, when I did a Keyword Search for "lowqualitycrap" here is what came up:
Microsoft to add 'black box' to WindowsThat's just the FIRST 25... there are a lot more... and the majority of these are Mac threads. Only 12 (24%) of the first 50 were NOT Mac threads. And of those 12, four (8%) were Linux threads. However, Windows threads with that keyword do appear (16%)... as well as the Linux and, several pages later, Wal-Mart threads. What makes you think that Hal9000 has done it? Why would he tag every Mac thread with this? Or is that you?
Apple CEO Again Gets $1 Salary for 2004
Motorola cites Apple for non-show of iTunes phone
A mini-guide to Mac OS X for new Mini owners
Mac Mini Price Significantly Less than DIY PC
Apple planning High-Definition Video Network via satellite and Internet?
Microsoft advises against iPod shuffle?
Apple desktop market share on the rise; will the Mac mini, iPod help?
Macintosh / Apple blog
Apple virus contest canned
Cinema HD proves bigger truly is better
CNET editor's take - iPod Photo Rates 9 out of 10
Macintosh Security: No Need for Perfection
The (Mac) Tiger Report: Should You Consider Upgrading?
Softgadgets for Your Macintosh
Tiger on Track for Mid-April Release
Mac OS X Tiger to ship April 29
Mac mini, iPod help drive Apple's profit higher (Net income up 530%)
Revealed: New Power Mac G5, iMac G5, eMac Specs
Trent Reznor Rules - Nine Inch Nails new single released in Garageband format
Tiger's Out This Week. No Bull.
iTunes Mobile 1.0 slated for June, iTunes 4.8 Mac/Win expected soon
Apple paid tech guru $15K to praise iPod on local news shows
Why doesn't Apple advertise Mac OS X on TV?
Study: Apple leapfrogs Toshiba in US PC shipments
You don't find that just a bit insulting?
No. One cannot insult a piece of hardware or an Operating System ... one insults a person or a group of persons! Why should a statement about a basically inert object or set of instructions affect YOU? Do you get insulted if someone criticizes the make of car you drive?
...but I'm certainly not going to let such nonsense slide to the point that others might come to actually believe such garbage.
Think about that... It may tell you a lot about why Mac users respond to mis-information which is targeted to people who are ignorant about the Mac. We have had many years of such mis-information. Mis-information includes uttering "facts" from ancient history as though it were still true today... from BOTH sides... especially when it comes repeatedly from the same people who have already been informed their "facts" no longer apply, repeatedly.
No, you didn't, because you insist on setting yourself up as the arbiter of good taste and decorum here on FR. Well, no offense, but who are you? And look, what a suprise, the arbiter of good taste and decorum decides that the people he's affiliated with are never in the wrong, and the people he's not affiliated with are always in the wrong. What a surprise, eh? You being a completely neutral observer and all. Awfully convenient how the bounds of good taste just happen to fall your way, don't you think?
Who am I? I am a person who works daily on and with Windows PCs (for pay) and Macs (because I prefer it). I am a person who can read critically and recognize argumentum ad hominem when I see it. I did not set myself up as the "arbitrator of good taste", I merely read through threads and made a mark on a text editor column if a particular comment included a reference to a Mac in Windows threads, Windows in Mac threads, personal attacks either way in both sets, and posted my findings. I did not care one way or the other if a particular post was Mac or Windows... but rather WHERE it was... and whether it was a personal attack. The findings speak for themselves. I documented Mac users being insulting to Windows when I found it. I documented Mac comments when I found them in Windows' threads and Windows comments in Mac threads. I described my criteria:
"Those which I deemed "mild" were those in which a platform advocate made reasoned commentary about their preferred platform and compared it to the subject platform. Those that commented denigrating the subject platform with ignorant or outdated mis-information, I deemed "moderate". Finally, comments attacking or denigrating the users of the subject platform, I deemed "Insulting". These judgments were subjective on my part... but I attempted to be totally fair."
You somehow find fault with this. If so, criticize the placement of comments in the three categories. Instead, you falsely accuse me of deciding, contrary to the facts in evidence, "that the people he's affiliated with are never in the wrong, and the people he's not affiliated with are always in the wrong." You accuse ME of not reading what you post... yet you make that statement in the face of my report documenting Mac users invading Microsoft/Windows threads and even a case of a Mac user tossing an insult toward Windows' users. I reported what I found in the 18 Mac and 18 Windows threads. Nothing was omitted except the comments that were on-topic, but even there I reported the total number of comments.
I'll say it again - if you don't want other people jumping on Mac threads, stop doing it yourselves. It's that simple.
No, it's simpler than that, General... just leave out the insults and slurs against the users of BOTH platforms. Keep the discussions open.
Ah, so it WAS you on the Mac threads.
That's correct - but it's obvious that the keyword expresses an opinion too.
So I figured I'd check that out by poisoning the well and applying it to lots of threads.
First, you accuse me of using the keyword on all of the Windows threads, which was untrue because others were also using it, and now you admit you use it yourself. Too funny. But be advised that "poisoning the well" is generally considered a malicious act, especially on this forum.
Be honest, now - it's not about tracking or polling or testing the mood of the forum, it's your little way of sticking it to others. Isn't it?
Okay, let's be honest. I coined the phrase and used it to track articles about Windows problems, and you admit were deliberately trying to mess up that functionality. It's disappointing to see you stoop to those Ted Kennedy-type antics, g_r - but it's no big deal. It doesn't affect my intended use of the keyword because I'm accustomed to dealing with noisy signals. The lowqualitycrap keyword still finds all of the articles I tagged with that keyword, despite your efforts to sabotage it.
"And a sleek appearance that relegates the traditional file-and-folder metaphor to the antique shop" for no other reason than Jobs had an acid flash. Files and folders make sense, and are excellent ways to organize things (and to engage in data redundancy, which isn't a bad idea). Jobs on the other hand has a penchant for bull****-edge technology, like the stringy-floppy on the first Apple III (the one which had the chips that popped out of their sockets as the board heated up), the single-sided 3.5 disk and lack of cursor keys on the original Mac, the RW drive on the NeXT box...
How convenient. Once again, the neutral arbiter of good taste and decorum weighs in. LOL.
One cannot insult a piece of hardware or an Operating System ... one insults a person or a group of persons!
Once again, it is not your place to determine when someone else should or should not be insulted. It's really quite insulting to have one's judgement called into question like that, and you call it a "prank". I guess that's all we need to know about how serious you are about elevating the tone on these threads. Sorry, but you don't get a free pass, not from me. You want the tone to change? Start with a mirror.
It may tell you a lot about why Mac users respond to mis-information which is targeted to people who are ignorant about the Mac.
And why, pray tell, do you think that your deponents respond thus? Is it not at least slightly possible that they feel as strongly about misinformation with respect to their choices as you do about yours? Are you the only one here who's allowed to object to misinformation?
Mis-information includes uttering "facts" from ancient history as though it were still true today... from BOTH sides...
Have I not said as much, repeatedly and forcefully? Do I like how pro-MS people conduct themselves? In some cases, no. In some cases, I don't care for how the pro-Apple people conduct themselves. I look at both sides, and I see culpability all around, so when I see one faction or another branding itself as the innocent victim, I feel compelled to speak up. So here I am, speaking up.
You know, this could have ended a long, long time ago, with just a simple acknowledgement that nobody here is perfect, that sometimes people get out of line or say things they shouldn't say, or say things in a way they shouldn't have. That's all it would have taken, and then I'd have STFU and left, but instead I got repeated protestations that nobody over here would ever do such a thing, no sirree. Maybe distance lends perspective or something, I don't know.
I did not set myself up as the "arbitrator of good taste"
Oh, yes you did, the instant you started criticizing someone else's unmade bed, without tending to your own dirty dishes first.
If so, criticize the placement of comments in the three categories.
No, I'm sorry. The best you're going to do is decide if you'd be insulted. Well, once again, who are you? Who are you to say what someone else should find "mildly" or "moderately" insulting. You are not an objective judge, and you cannot be an objective judge, because it is the target of such things who should decide whether or not to be insulted. You are not empowered to decide for them.
No, it's simpler than that, General... just leave out the insults and slurs against the users of BOTH platforms.
Hey, there ya go. We may even be making some sort of progress. I agree with that. How 'bout that? ;)
Ah, so it WAS you on the Mac threads.
And the Linux threads. I just kind of felt like helping out with the old tracking project. Am I not a nice guy, extending the usefulness of such keywords?
The place to express your opinions is in the posts, Hal, not the keywords.
But be advised that "poisoning the well" is generally considered a malicious act, especially on this forum.
Oh, and what do you call keyword abuse in order to provoke others? Lemme guess - it's a "prank", right? Sorry, Hal, if I did anything wrong, it was following your lead, so if you feel like reporting me to the mods for it, be my guest.
Okay, let's be honest. I coined the phrase and used it to track articles about Windows problems...
So basically, you were lying a few posts ago when you said you were just trying to get a feel for the opinions of folks. I figured as much.
The lowqualitycrap keyword still finds all of the articles I tagged with that keyword, despite your efforts to sabotage it.
Good. Glad to hear it. I find it pretty useful to track everything computer-related around here, and since you don't own the keywords, and don't dictate how they get used, I imagine I'll keep applying it as I see fit.
You know, on second thought, I'm not going to play the keyword-abuse game any more. It's petty and stupid, and someone ought to try to rise above it - guess that someone can be me.
That's typical. The Windows guy couldn't come up with an original keyword concept, so he had to copy the Mac guy. It's the same method Microsoft uses to design their products.
Let me help you out. We'll use your own description of your activities to create a new keyword - poisoningthewell - to find threads where someone admits he poisoned the neighbors' well because he disagreed with their opinions.
So basically, you were lying a few posts ago when you said you were just trying to get a feel for the opinions of folks. I figured as much.
Nope.
Im guessing it has something to do with the fact on every mac post trolls come ind and say thigs like 'year for all ten of them', or 'mac users are gay'... but youre right somehow its a problem with the mac users here..
"The Windows guy". Well, how to explain this Mini here? Dunno, someone must have snuck into the house of "the Windows guy" and dropped it off. That's pretty cool, though - it'll go well with the FreeBSD box sitting next to "the Windows guy".
We'll use your own description of your activities to create a new keyword - poisoningthewell - to find threads where someone admits he poisoned the neighbors' well because he disagreed with their opinions.
I can't imagine where you'll find such a thread, since nobody to my knowledge has stated doing something like that "because he disagreed with their opinions". It was quite enough to expose your BS "tracking" project as nothing more than petty insults. Maybe you can find a thread like that to apply the keyword to.
So basically, you were lying a few posts ago when you said you were just trying to get a feel for the opinions of folks. I figured as much.
Nope.
Yeah, I think so.
Petty insults? I didn't realize the Windows operating system was so sensitive. Poor Windows, it's got it's feeling hurt by HAL9000. Boo hoo.
It's an operating system, man. Quit anthropomorphizing about it.
Oh, please. If your intent wasn't to get a rise out of people, there are several million other keywords you could have chosen. But "HAL9000WASHERE" doesn't give you that little charge you get from tweaking people, does it?
It's really quite insulting to have one's judgement called into question like that, and you call it a "prank".
Do you take every negative comment about Windows so personally?
Once again, General, criticism of inanimate, non-sentient objects is fair game and cannot be insulting; the object has no feelings to feel insulted... but criticism, especially false criticism, of PERSONS can be insulting. If you feel that the run-together-word "lowqualitycrap" is insulting to YOU, personally, then you have the problem, not Hal9000, who was merely expressing an opinion that is debatable.
That's all it would have taken, and then I'd have STFU and left, but instead I got repeated protestations that nobody over here would ever do such a thing, no sirree. Maybe distance lends perspective or something, I don't know.
Again you put words in my posts that do not exist on this forum. What part of a report that merely counts the number of "off topic" posts, including listing the "insult" posts from Mac and Windows users, is a claim that "nobody over here would ever do such a thing, no sirree."
Are you the only one here who's allowed to object to misinformation?
And where have I (or any Mac user) advocated that absurdity? You pull these things out of your hat without providing any proof.
The fact remains, that it is YOU and your cohorts who repeatedly address Mac users as "MacMoonies." It is you who equate Mac users with cultists who kill their own... and toss off comments like "Drinking the Kool Aid" as though it means nothing or is amusing, seemingly unaware of the deep trajedy and horror it represents. It is you and your fellow Windows users who routinely hint that Mac users practice sexual perversions and somehow think its cute to slur all Mac users with a broad brush. ALL of these examples are personal assaults on the inegrity, sanity, and morality of a group of people who have merely chosen a different computer than you. General, there is a QUALITATIVE DIFFERENCE between such personal attacks and criticism of works of artiface... which are what both Windows and OSX are.
It is YOU that has claimed that I (personally) am somehow deluded because I don't agree with you. Have you found ANYWHERE in this thread or others where I have claimed similar things about you or called you names?
The best you're going to do is decide if you'd be insulted.
No, I merely looked at the post and decided if it attacked a person or a group of persons or a thing. If it was a thing, it was categorized in one of the first two categories. Only if it attacked a person(s) was it considered "insulting". For example the statement "(Operating System) is a piece of crap." attacks a thing and as such can only be categorized in either "mild" or "moderate" categories, while "(Operating System user) is a piece of crap." attacks a person and was categorized as "insulting". Nothing difficult about it... just read what it says.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.