Posted on 04/10/2005 6:26:38 PM PDT by schmelvin
Ken: I’m the nephew of Mae Magouirk in LaGrange, Georgia. My family lives in Alabama. They’re from Addiston, Alabama and I live in Birmingham, Alabama and we love my aunt Mae very much and we can’t believe that, uh, she is being withheld substantial nourishment…
Glenn: Ken, tell me this, tell me the situation, uh, be, because your grandma has, your grandma had, or your aunt has a, um, a living will!
Ken: Yeah, she has a living will and the living will is not being obeyed. As a matter of fact her attending physician, Doctor Stadde of LaGrange, Georgia, said in probate court that even though Mae Magourik’s living will says tha, uh, that her nourishment and fluids should only be pulled if she’s comatose or vegetative, that he feels her life is such that it should be pulled regardless.
(snip)
Ken: And those of your listeners that are sitting by, complacent, thinking “oh, poor Terri Schindler-Schiavo.” And I was one of them last week. I said, “Oh it’s terrible, but it’s just a freak, it’s an anomaly. It couldn’t happen to us.”
The next day, it happened to us...
(snip)
Glenn: Let me ask you this Ken, let me ask you this. How did your, um, uh, how did your aunt’s uh, granddaughter get control of the situation?
Ken: How did she what?
Glenn: How did she get control. How did this happ…
Ken: Well I’ll tell you what. First of all she bluffed us. Uh, we went to the hospital in LaGrange when my aunt was first sick and Beth told my uncle, she said, “Uncle Buddy, don’t even start with me. I’ve got the medical durable power of attorney. I’m making the decisions.” And I said, “Beth, you know, we’re right here in front of your grandmother. Even though she’s on morphine, we shouldn’t talk about this. We should go out in the hall.”
We went out in the hall and we explained my mother’s in uh, she’s had a great quality of life for the last two years even though she was in a coma. [Ken's mother was only in a coma for 3 months, she is now living a normal, active life.] We can treat it without surgery. And she said, “Listen,” she said, she started crying, she said, “I’ve been praying about this and, and I’ve been praying to Jesus. Jesus has told me it’s time that grandmother went home to Jesus. She’s got glaucoma. Now she’s got a dissected aorta and her quality of life is just terrible and we just think she should just go to hospice.” And I said, “Beth, hospice is a synonym for death. We’ve got doctors who are ready to take care of her today.”
She goes, “no, I’ve got the medical power of attorney and that’s it.” So we thought our hands were tied, Glenn. A week goes by. Last Thursday my uncle and my mother independently started thinking, “this is wrong.” Since I used to be on Capitol Hill as a senior staff guy in Washington, I know my way around, so they said, “Kenny, get involved see what you can find out, we want to bring May to UAB hospital.” So I call hospice, I say to Frita the hospice nurse. I said, “what are my aunt’s vital stats at. She said, “well today, her blood pressure is 160/88 with a pulse of 84.” I said, “well that’s not so bad.” I said, “my aunt’s going to make it, isn’t she.” She says, “Oh no, your aunt’s not going to make it because we have withheld nourishment per geth…Beth Gaddy since March 28th.” She said, “I’ve been off the past few days. I’m surprised your aunt’s still alive.” I said, “What!”
Next time, I, she says, “call the hospice attorney.” I called Carol Todd, hospice attorney, ug, said “we’re going to be litigious.” She said, “let me check into it. Heard nothing all day, last Thursday, March 31st until 4 in the afternoon. Carol Todd called me up, “Oh my God, we made a mistake.” I said, “What are you talking about, mistake?” She said, “Beth has power of attorney, but it’s only financial, not medical durable power of attorney. And guess what? Your aunt has a living will and it says only should fluids and nourishment be withheld if she’s comatose or vegetative, she’s neither.”
I said, “Guess what, Mother, get on the phone.” Mom got on the phone. She said, “start IV fluids immediately.” They said, “we can do that.” She said, “start a temporary feeding tube just in the nose to give her nourishment and get her electrolytes back up so she can start feeding herself.” They said, “We can’t do that, you’ve gotta come in and sign the papers.” So, uh, Mom stayed here because she’s a little sick. My uncle Buddy, Aunt May’s brother and I went, the three hours from our homes to LaGrange, Georgia from our homes in Alabama. Hospice attorney Carol Todd was to meet us at 10 o’clock. She didn’t show up and the hospice head nurse talked to us, “oh, she needs to die. You know, the life’s over, no quality of life.”
And finally, we listened to this for about an hour and a half, and I said, “This is B.S. We want my aunt out of here now. I have world-class doctor Raed Agel of UAB’s cardiovascular unit arranging life-saver helicopter.” They kept inching us on out, Glenn, until Carol Todd the hospice attorney showed up and gave us a piece of paper. Turns out hospice had told Beth Gaddy the granddaughter that we were coming over, that she no longer had durable power of attorney and she went before the probate judge that morning and got a temporary emergency guardianship.
(snip)
Glenn: Oh, I gotta tell you, you can go to all the law schools, you say everybody on the Supreme Court, everybody on the 11th circuit court, everybody down in Florida, they all passed the bar and I gotta tell you man. Just because you went to school and, and passed the bar and you are an attorney and then you become a judge, doesn’t mean that you have common sense. I’m sick of these judges, man, sick to death of these judges. So let me ask you, did they put, did they, so they didn’t put the feeding tube back in. Was she, did, uh, did, how long has she been without food and water?
Ken: No, but they did have an IV in that we ordered on last Thursday and it was in her Friday, April 1st. But when the hospice person gave us this emergency decree from the probate judge, they took the IV liquids out right in front of us.
(snip)
Glenn: But, how much, how much time does she have?
Ken: That’s why I couldn’t wait on this compromise. It was supposed to be 24 hours from Monday. I waited all the way till Thursday. But how much time does she have? I don’t know. Because she’s 81 and the worst thing about it, you know, it’s bad that she’s not getting adequate nourishment or adequate fluids, but this is a little thing that, that may not mean anything to anybody but me or my aunt. But she, she has glaucoma. She can’t produce tears. She has to take drops to keep her eyes lubricated. She hasn’t had those drops in the last two weeks. She’s blind practically now. Opening her eyes is, is a terrible pain. And they won’t give her the drops.
(snip)
You can read the entire interview here:
http://www.aclearvoice.org/archives/2005/04/transcript_of_g.php
I have been thinking about this issue for several weeks as a result of taking part on various Terri threads. I have noticed how several Freepers have argued on the side of the 'Right to Die' and much of their opinion has been shaped by personal experience, some have allied themselves to the death lobby only because of a certain amount of guilt they feel for allowing a relative to be admitted to a hospice, without a clear understanding of what happens to the patient once he/she is admitted. They fight tooth and claw to justify their own actions, and thus appear to place themselves into the death-by-hospice camp.
Once the truth about 'hospice care' is out in the open, the guilt they feel should be elminated. The entire concept is based upon a lie. Death with dignity! What BS. No treatment, no therapy, no facilities, IMO hospice care is no better than taking a lost dog to the Pound. (But in a Pound, if a new owner is found, at least the animal is allowed to be released!) Miss Mae is probably one of the very few who ever escaped with her life. Miss Mae may not live - but if she dies, her stay in the hospice certainly contributed to her death. (I pray she lives many years.)
I have an aged mother, 90 yo. Healthy and independant. She has made it clear she wishes no life-support, but NEVER WILL SHE BE COMMITTED TO A HOSPICE.
It's about time people found out about hospice.
Me too. I hope she at least "leaks" some information to a freeper or two who was in contact with Kenneth even if she doesn't go public.
I was pretty flabbergasted that I didn't have to debate these cases (Terri or Mae) with anybody in the neighborhood. The area runs the gamut of political party affiliations and sometimes the lines get blurry on issues but this one was 100% life. That's a good thing with all we hear in the media.
Wow! You really hit the nail on the head with that one.
When Glenn said We tried to get a hold of, the uh, the granddaughter. But, do uh, do you have another way of getting a hold of her? She’s, uh, her phone is not working. Then Ken answered Well it turned out that the bloggers for Terri Schiavo gave her about two or three thousand telephone calls yesterday, I laughed so hard I missed the rest of the interview.
If I wasn't so beyond disgusted with this topic(meaning the reality of what is happening....not meaning this topic posted)....I may have laughed at your post. It was very witty.
One interesting thing also came out from the last few weeks of my neighborhood discussions. The couple on the east of me are moderate to left-leaning. The lady works in administration at a local nursing home. She wasn't happy with a lot of what she heard about Terri but during our Thursday night and Friday activities for Mae she got the news of what I was up to. She was horrified when she heard the facts of Mae's situation. She was more knowledgeable about the medical things surrounding Mae's case than I was. She said there was no way that lady should be in hospice and no way it was time for her to die.
She's commented on many occasions that hospice is a place to die. Where she works, only residents who are really about to die go to hospice. Her whole concept of hospice from her professional knowledge is hospice=death. So, that lines right up with your "lost dog going to the pound" analogy.
Now, that one lady and I agree on something political about one in 20 times. But, on this, she is one of the most outspoken for life. Interesting huh?
Bolton: So I say to the honorable senator from Massachusetts, let he who is without sin cast the first empty.
If this is hospice, it has changed in the last 10 years. My dad had terminal cancer...he tried EVERYTHING..he was a fighter, but when the cancer was spotted on his backbone and in his liver, he decided that he'd had enough chemo. Hospice helped my mom keep my dad comfortable...when he needed oxygen for comfort, they gave it to him.
I think when hospice is involved with TERMINAL patients with cancer, they can be very helpful with pain management...and believe me, the pain is acute! The issue is that obviously people are being sent to hospice that should NOT be. Terri and this woman should NOT have been placed in hospice...they don't fit the criteria. WIthholding food and water from ANYONE is a horrible way to die!. In hospice, my dad was not withheld anything...everything was aimed at making him as comfortable as possible. Obviously, this hospice does not follow the same creed.
Thanks for the ping!
It's the existence of hospice 'care' that allows this situation to exist. Without the hospice, people in need of care are either in hospital, in a nursing home, or cared for by their family.
The euthenasia lobby wouldn't get very far in a hospital, would they? Can you imagine a family member telling a doctor in a hospital, 'listen, I think it's time for grandma to go to Jesus'?
I can't. I'm the widow of a physician & surgeon. I accompanied him on numerous visits to elderly patients in nursing homes where the patients were treated and nursed, given therapy, wheeled into the sunshine, NOT STARVED and DEHYDRATED!.
I have this image in my head of Beth throwing her phone on the ground, stomping on it, jumping up & down on it, and kicking it. But, it still won't stop ringing...
I’ve been praying about this and, and I’ve been praying to Jesus. Jesus has told me it’s time that grandmother went home to Jesusthen it's rather obvious that she's quite delusional if not completely insane. The other family members need to get to a judge and let it be known that this woman is making medical decisions based on nothing more than an imaginary discussion with Jesus. This is nuts, and I suspect a judge might see it as such too. God's words or orders or revelations don't trump binding legal documents, at least not in America.
Maybe that will be her hell.
LOL - she'll keep trying to use the phone, to order pizza, but it will just ring constantly.
http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schiavo-10-12-02-press-rel.html
This is the problem: (Snip)
"Hospice lobbying groups like the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization and the state hospice associations need to act immediately to preserve the hospice mission before hospice practice descends into the gutter and hospice becomes synonymous with "house-of-murder." It is common knowledge among the public that some hospices routinely kill their patients with overdosages of morphine and sedatives before the patient dies a natural death from the terminal illness.
These national groups need to take a stand for morality, ethics and compassion. They loudly proclaim that hospice is "compassion and caring for the dying," but killing the disabled is the furthest thing from "compassionate" or "caring." They do nothing when non-terminal patients are threatened by those who wish to kill them in a hospice. Hospice staff throughout the nation eagerly learn how to terminally sedate patients and then end patient's lives (through dehydration and circulatory collapse) when they have no medical need for sedation.5 Many physicians are more than willing to end the lives of their patients. (See 6, and 7. And approximately 50 per cent of physicians in our nation approve of physician-assisted suicide8!)"
A Judge did one heck of a lot for Terri.
She was removed from that hospice and transported to a hospital where she is now getting excellent care.
Great news.
See The Entrenchment of Evil at my blog. I think it covers this subject nicely.
I LOVE IT!!
I REALLY LOVE IT!!
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