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Scaring people away from debt
JWR ^ | 4-8-05 | Froma Harrop

Posted on 04/08/2005 6:15:18 AM PDT by FlyLow

The era of happy borrowing is over. Americans might as well know it.

The death bell now tolls for low interest rates. And he, who doesn't hear that chime, can't miss the siren of bankruptcy reform. The federal bankruptcy bill, sure to become law, will turn many exuberant borrowers into lunch for debt collectors.

Fear does have its uses. If the sight of a tighter noose warns people away from piling up debt, all to the good. Americans will understand that credit cards are a potential enemy — and that even the friendly home mortgage can come back to haunt them.

The bankruptcy bill in a nutshell: If you get in over your head in debt, and still have a decent income, you can't wipe the slate clean with a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Instead, you will be shunted into what's called Chapter 13. There, lawyers will find a way for you to pay back what you owe. That means you will write your creditors checks month after month and, if necessary, year after year.

To be honest, the bankruptcy bill leaves me with mixed emotions. The Puritan in me likes the part about personal responsibility. People who borrow have a moral duty to pay back their debt. And there are bad people who work the system. They do a Chapter 7 on Monday, then drive off in a new BMW Tuesday.

The liberal in me, however, thinks that the weak deserve protection. Many people fall into bankruptcy owing to medical bills or other bad luck. And the legislation does nothing to stop credit-card pushers from luring the innocent into obligations they barely understand.

(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...


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To: Protagoras

None the less, unsecured credit is just that... unsecured. The contract should stop fraud, not honest people who have gotten into some trouble and need relief.


61 posted on 04/08/2005 8:44:17 AM PDT by MikeReedKS (Create a FREE Internet Memorial Today at http://RememberedByUs.com)
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To: Kretek
Many insurers are tying their rates to credit "scores;" have a low score and a perfect driving record, and you're still going to pay a high premium.

That's bizarre. What does one have to do with the other?

62 posted on 04/08/2005 8:49:46 AM PDT by A Ruckus of Dogs
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To: MikeReedKS
The contract should stop fraud, not honest people who have gotten into some trouble and need relief.

I disagree. Personal responsibility is essential. In borrowing and repaying.

63 posted on 04/08/2005 8:53:36 AM PDT by Protagoras (Christ is risen.)
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To: John Robertson
"William S.: "Neither a borrower nor a lender be"." First of all, that was Poor Richard (Ben Franklin).

Nope sorry that was Billy himself:

Neither a borrower nor a lender be:

A line from the play Hamlet, by William Shakespeare. Polonius, a garrulous old man, gives this advice to his son.

64 posted on 04/08/2005 8:55:45 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg ("`Eddies,' said Ford, `in the space-time continuum.' `Ah,' nodded Arthur, `is he? Is he?'")
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To: HamiltonJay
If you have credit cards, pay them off and cancel them.. tehre is absolutely no reason to have them anymore. The argument they are more convient than Cash died the day the debit card came about.

Credit cards have better fraud protection than debit cards, they don't suck funds from your account immediately, and with the right card you can get cash back or other benefits. I do agree that carrying a balance on a them is terrible.

65 posted on 04/08/2005 8:59:10 AM PDT by ThinkDifferent (These pretzels are making me thirsty)
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs
That's bizarre. What does one have to do with the other?

Presumably they have statistics showing that drivers with poor credit are more likely to have accidents. That sort of makes sense because personal responsibility is a major factor in both.

66 posted on 04/08/2005 9:01:59 AM PDT by ThinkDifferent (These pretzels are making me thirsty)
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To: FlyLow
The liberal in me, however, thinks that the weak deserve protection. Many people fall into bankruptcy owing to medical bills or other bad luck. And the legislation does nothing to stop credit-card pushers from luring the innocent into obligations they barely understand.

Fine

The author and all the other whiners can give the money to these people instead of complaining that now it is harder to file bankruptcy and transfer one's legally incurred debt to innocent victims.

67 posted on 04/08/2005 9:04:45 AM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: A Ruckus of Dogs
That's bizarre. What does one have to do with the other?

Over a large domain, people that exercise personal financial responsibility are less likely to have accidents and file claims.

68 posted on 04/08/2005 9:07:01 AM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: Protagoras

I believe that Geico does this as well, but I am not sure. The credit history is getting a work out in terms of what it is being used for --> the notion of risk for a person.


69 posted on 04/08/2005 9:16:13 AM PDT by technochick99 (Self defense is a basic human right ; Sig Sauer is my equalizer)
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To: af_vet_1981
Over a large domain, people that exercise personal financial responsibility are less likely to have accidents and file claims.

Does that also apply to people who have not established a credit rating?

70 posted on 04/08/2005 9:17:58 AM PDT by Protagoras (Christ is risen.)
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To: John Robertson
"William S.: "Neither a borrower nor a lender be"."

First of all, that was Poor Richard (Ben Franklin).

  No, it was Polonius, from Hamlet. Thus, Shakespeare. If it appeared in Poor Richard, Franklin got the quote from Shakespeare - we can take if for granted that Franklin was familiar with those plays.

  Although, it is worth pointing out that Polonius was intended as a blowhard, and his advice was not something anyone should actually follow. It was, in short, an ironic speech.

Drew Garrett

71 posted on 04/08/2005 9:21:53 AM PDT by agarrett
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To: Mad Dawgg

You're right, I was too quick on the trigger with that.

But I was right about everything else.


72 posted on 04/08/2005 9:25:40 AM PDT by John Robertson
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To: Protagoras
With all due respect, I think you should read the LEGAL agreement which OBLIGATES each side to do certain things. It's a legal contract with obligations.

  And as you point out, it is a legal contract. Which, by implication, makes it subordinate to the laws of the land. Those laws include laws on debt repayment. These contracts will not override the laws.

  This means there is implicit bankruptcy protection (now changed by a change in the laws) as well as collection protection and the like. It is, as has been pointed out, an unsecured loan.

Drew Garrett

73 posted on 04/08/2005 9:28:06 AM PDT by agarrett
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To: agarrett
There is no question the government which should be enforcing the legal contracts has the firepower to override them. They abet the crime in return for power.

"Vote for me, I'll set you free".

An unsecured debt is still a debt. The money is owed. The person who doesn't pay his freely taken responsibilities is a thief.

74 posted on 04/08/2005 9:40:20 AM PDT by Protagoras (Christ is risen.)
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To: Protagoras
Let me get this straight. You had to pay a higher auto insurance premium because you didn't have a credit history?

Yes, most carriers now check credit history. I was rejected by the discount carriers because I had no credit history and had to go with a more expensive company.

75 posted on 04/08/2005 9:47:48 AM PDT by rmmcdaniell
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To: rmmcdaniell

Personally I wouldn't do business with any company who did that if I knew about it.


76 posted on 04/08/2005 9:54:03 AM PDT by Protagoras (Christ is risen.)
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To: Protagoras
Does that also apply to people who have not established a credit rating?

It depends on the domain.

Do you give the keys to your favorite car to any 16 year old boy who happens to have no credit rating ?

77 posted on 04/08/2005 9:56:36 AM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: af_vet_1981
Do you give the keys to your favorite car to any 16 year old boy who happens to have no credit rating ?

Try a different analogy, that one is even close enough to be called an analogy.

78 posted on 04/08/2005 10:00:31 AM PDT by Protagoras (Christ is risen.)
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To: Protagoras
Try a different analogy, that one is even close enough to be called an analogy.

Young people are the most likely to not have established credit.

Anyone in a modern country without a credit rating is a credit risk.

79 posted on 04/08/2005 10:02:15 AM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: af_vet_1981
Young people are the most likely to not have established credit.

Is it about age or credit rating? Young people are a relatively poorer risk for accidents, the Insurance Cos have priced that in.

Anyone in a modern country without a credit rating is a credit risk.

Ummm, this is about insurance, not loans.

80 posted on 04/08/2005 10:07:35 AM PDT by Protagoras (Christ is risen.)
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