Posted on 03/27/2005 5:41:38 PM PST by quidnunc
A Church of England bishop has called on churches to ban the singing of I Vow to Thee, My Country, one of the best known hymns, because he says it is heretical and has racist overtones.
The Bishop of Hulme, the Rt Rev Stephen Lowe, said the hymn's popularity was a symptom of a "dangerous" increase in English nationalism which had parallels with the rise of Nazism.
Its associations with the British empire were also questionable in a multi-faith, multi-cultural society.
The patriotic hymn, which is set to music from Gustav Holst's The Planets, is a popular choice for Remembrance Day services and other national occasions.
It was sung at the wedding of the Princess of Wales, who said it had been a favourite of hers since her schooldays. It was also sung at her funeral in 1997. A version was adapted as the anthem for the Rugby World Cup.
The bishop said the words, written by Sir Cecil Spring-Rice in 1918, were "totally heretical" because they suggested that people should pledge their allegiance to their country before God.
"My country, right or wrong is not an appropriate sentiment for Christians to uphold," he said.
He had no objection to the second verse but would not allow the first to be sung at any of his services and urged clergy to think "long and hard" before permitting it.
-snip-
"It is like American culture where there is this view that America is the land of the free when we know it is not. But there are those in America who want to maintain that it is and want to impose their understanding, their culture, their way of doing things on everybody else. That is dangerous."
-snip-
(Excerpt) Read more at news.telegraph.co.uk ...
I vow to thee, my country — all earthly things above —
Entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love;
The love that asks no question, the love that stands the test,
That lays upon the altar the dearest and the best;
The love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
The love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice.
And there’s another country, I’ve heard of long ago—
Most dear to them that love her, most great to them that know;
We may not count her armies, we may not see her King;
Her fortress is a faithful heart, her pride is suffering;
And soul by soul and silently her shining bounds increase,
And the problem is? How dare they remind us we live in a particular country.
I vow to thee, my country — all earthly things above —
The gist of the hymn is pretty much what St. Augustine argues in "The City of God," that we are citizens of two cities and should be loyal to our earthly city, so far as we may, but that we owe our primary allegiance to Heaven. I can't imagine why anyone would object to it.
I like that hymn, and I'm not even a Brit!
If the good Bishop isn't going to quote Stephen Decatur's toast correctly, he ought not use it at all.
"My country...may she always be right, but right or wrong, my country."
As soon as I read this I thought about 'There Will Always Be an England' and wondered if there will be..
This site notes that the left hates this song,too.
http://www.sterlingtimes.co.uk/alwaysengland.Html
There'll always be an England,
While there's a country lane.
Wherever there's a cottage small
Beside a field of grain
There'll always be an England
While there's a busy street.
Wherever there's a turning wheel
A million marching feet.
Red, white and blue
What does it mean to you?
Surely you're proud
Shout it loud
Britons awake!
The Empire too
We can depend on you.
Freedom remains
These are the chains
Nothing can break.
There'll always be an England
And England shall be free
If England means as much to you
As England means to me.
"Can't [you] imagine"?
Here you are [BARF alert]:
Imagine (by John Lennon)
Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...
Imagine there's no countries,
It isn't hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...
Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer,
but I'm not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.
Your comments on such matters are always on the mark. Comments?
How beautiful...maybe it will become popular here.
Socialized medicine has parallels in Nazism as well. Interesting how the Left chooses its indignations.
We vow to build a country
Where all can live in health
Where no child need live in poverty
Where we will share our wealth
Where we fulfill the true potential
Of each and every one
And we achieve more together
Than we achieve alone
As democrats and socialists
We hold this to be true
From each by their ability
To everyone their due
We vow to build a country
Where none of us takes heed
Of birth or disability
Of race or sex or creed
By the strength of our endeavor
We can build the world anew
And put the power in the hands of
The many not the few
For there is a simple principle
That no one shall displace
We are all alike in humankind
We are the human race.
I bet they're already singing this at Princess Diana's old school in place of the version she sang as a child.
Always nice to run across someone who has traveled the Glory Road.
Scary....
Is this bishop a 'friend of John'?
Did I miss something?
Bride Is Banned From Singing Jerusalem A Bride has cancelled her wedding in a parish church after the director of music allegedly told her parents that Jerusalem was "too nationalistic" a hymn to be appropriate.
Victoria Williams, 26, said that Martyn Barrow also objected — for similar reasons — to playing I Vow to Thee My Country, the hymn used at the Prince of Wales's wedding.
Mr Barrow's stand has been supported by the Rev Donald Allister, Rector of Cheadle, near Stockport, Greater Manchester.
Yesterday Miss Williams was sending out new invitations after deciding to hold her wedding at a neighbouring church in Offerton, where the local organist is happy to play her choice of hymns.
She said: "I cannot believe what has happened. I booked the church 18 months ago and the rector never said anything about allowing certain hymns and not others. But when my mum rang to confirm the order of service, she told Mr Barrow the first hymn we intended was Jerusalem.
"All he could say was, 'No, not approved'. When she asked why he said it was because neither he nor the rector agreed with it. She then told him the next hymn was I Vow to Thee My Country and he turned that down, too. He said they were both too nationalistic."
Miss Williams, of Livingstone, near Edinburgh, added: "I could not believe it. To me they are two extremely well-known church hymns which have been around for years."
Her father, James, a 54-year-old gardener, described the ban as "disgusting" and asked: "Why can't my daughter and prospective son-in-law choose their own hymns?
"Victoria has liked Jerusalem since she was a child and watched it on television being sung at the Last Night of the Proms. She really wanted it at her wedding. It was, after all, her big day — not the rector's. The whole family is upset."
Mr Barrow, who is in his early forties and started work at Cheadle parish church eight months ago, was on holiday last night and could not be contacted.
Mr Allister, 48, said that although he had been unable to discuss the affair with his director of music, he knew of Mr Barrow's "conscientious" objections to both hymns and supported his decision. "Martyn has a religious, rather than a musical objection, to Jerusalem. He simply isn't happy playing it, and I believe in supporting the staff."
Jerusalem began life as a poem by William Blake and Mr Allister added: "From my own reading of Blake, he was not interested in spreading the gospel. He was interested in a socialist-type Utopia. He was using the word Jerusalem allegorically.
"I enjoy it as a mystical poem, but it is not a prayer and it is not about God. Nor is it addressed to God, and nor does it contain any of the themes you would expect of God." He said people tended to interpret the poem in the nationalistic sense that England is best.
"We all want to be patriotic, but in a proper way, and this poem is just not appropriate. What it is actually saying is, 'Wouldn't it be nice if Jesus had lived in England?' Yet we all know that he did not, so it is just nonsense. I can understand it being used at an army parade or something like that, but it is not suitable for a wedding."
Mr Allister said that usually when couples requested Jerusalem he would ask them to discuss the poem's meaning. If they still wanted it, he would agree to a tape or CD being played in church.
"What most people actually want is Hubert Parry's tune, so we sometimes suggest other hymns to the same music. Indeed, Martyn has himself written a hymn on marriage and God's love to the tune of Jerusalem."
It was "a little sad" that Miss Williams and her fiance had not discussed the matter with him prior to rearranging their wedding. Couples planning a wedding in the parish church were sent a letter asking them to discuss the music at least three months in advance.
Ultimately, it was for the local church authorities to decide which music might be played at either a wedding or a funeral. Mr Allister confessed to having "a much more open mind" about I Vow to Thee My Country.
He said its popularity had waned in the years since the wedding of the Prince of Wales. "It doesn't seem to have the slightest relevance to a wedding, though I can see it's got a point when being considered for Royalty."
Miss Williams and her fiance will celebrate their wedding on Sept 8. "I hope they have a very happy wedding day," said Mr Allister. Michael Allis, a lecturer at the Royal Academy of Music said it was a shame that so adaptable a tune as Jerusalem appeared to being interpreted "in a narrow way".
He added: "It is a great piece of music and loved by people of many shades of political opinion. I would say that those banning it should see the beauty of the piece."
(Nigel Bunyan in The Telegraph, August 9, 2001)
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/08/09/nwed09.xml
Jerusalem And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England’s mountains green?
And was the Holy Lamb of God
On England’s pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark satanic mills?Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England’s green and pleasant land.
Another sad development in the EU's Northwest Islands Zone.
This is so silly. Both of these hymns are in the Church of England's hymnal (Hymns Ancient and Modern). Furthermore, Blake's poem "Jerusalem" was actually written in support of the British labor movement suffering in the "dark satanic mills." The second verse is a call to action to build a new "Jerusalem" (a more godly and merciful place) in England.
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