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To: quidnunc

The gist of the hymn is pretty much what St. Augustine argues in "The City of God," that we are citizens of two cities and should be loyal to our earthly city, so far as we may, but that we owe our primary allegiance to Heaven. I can't imagine why anyone would object to it.


4 posted on 03/27/2005 5:48:45 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero
The gist of the hymn is pretty much what St. Augustine argues in "The City of God," that we are citizens of two cities and should be loyal to our earthly city, so far as we may, but that we owe our primary allegiance to Heaven. I can't imagine why anyone would object to it.

"Can't [you] imagine"?

Here you are [BARF alert]:

Imagine (by John Lennon)

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...


Imagine there's no countries,
It isn't hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...


Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...


You may say I'm a dreamer,
but I'm not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

8 posted on 03/27/2005 6:01:42 PM PST by A. Pole (Graham Greene: "Innocence is like a dumb leper who has lost his bell, wandering the world ...")
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To: Cicero
This sort of jackassery evidently crops up in contemporary Britain from time to time.

Bride Is Banned From Singing Jerusalem

A Bride has cancelled her wedding in a parish church after the director of music allegedly told her parents that Jerusalem was "too nationalistic" a hymn to be appropriate.

Victoria Williams, 26, said that Martyn Barrow also objected — for similar reasons — to playing I Vow to Thee My Country, the hymn used at the Prince of Wales's wedding.

Mr Barrow's stand has been supported by the Rev Donald Allister, Rector of Cheadle, near Stockport, Greater Manchester.

Yesterday Miss Williams was sending out new invitations after deciding to hold her wedding at a neighbouring church in Offerton, where the local organist is happy to play her choice of hymns.

She said: "I cannot believe what has happened. I booked the church 18 months ago and the rector never said anything about allowing certain hymns and not others. But when my mum rang to confirm the order of service, she told Mr Barrow the first hymn we intended was Jerusalem.

"All he could say was, 'No, not approved'. When she asked why he said it was because neither he nor the rector agreed with it. She then told him the next hymn was I Vow to Thee My Country and he turned that down, too. He said they were both too nationalistic."

Miss Williams, of Livingstone, near Edinburgh, added: "I could not believe it. To me they are two extremely well-known church hymns which have been around for years."

Her father, James, a 54-year-old gardener, described the ban as "disgusting" and asked: "Why can't my daughter and prospective son-in-law choose their own hymns?

"Victoria has liked Jerusalem since she was a child and watched it on television being sung at the Last Night of the Proms. She really wanted it at her wedding. It was, after all, her big day — not the rector's. The whole family is upset."

Mr Barrow, who is in his early forties and started work at Cheadle parish church eight months ago, was on holiday last night and could not be contacted.

Mr Allister, 48, said that although he had been unable to discuss the affair with his director of music, he knew of Mr Barrow's "conscientious" objections to both hymns and supported his decision. "Martyn has a religious, rather than a musical objection, to Jerusalem. He simply isn't happy playing it, and I believe in supporting the staff."

Jerusalem began life as a poem by William Blake and Mr Allister added: "From my own reading of Blake, he was not interested in spreading the gospel. He was interested in a socialist-type Utopia. He was using the word Jerusalem allegorically.

"I enjoy it as a mystical poem, but it is not a prayer and it is not about God. Nor is it addressed to God, and nor does it contain any of the themes you would expect of God." He said people tended to interpret the poem in the nationalistic sense that England is best.

"We all want to be patriotic, but in a proper way, and this poem is just not appropriate. What it is actually saying is, 'Wouldn't it be nice if Jesus had lived in England?' Yet we all know that he did not, so it is just nonsense. I can understand it being used at an army parade or something like that, but it is not suitable for a wedding."

Mr Allister said that usually when couples requested Jerusalem he would ask them to discuss the poem's meaning. If they still wanted it, he would agree to a tape or CD being played in church.

"What most people actually want is Hubert Parry's tune, so we sometimes suggest other hymns to the same music. Indeed, Martyn has himself written a hymn on marriage and God's love to the tune of Jerusalem."

It was "a little sad" that Miss Williams and her fiance had not discussed the matter with him prior to rearranging their wedding. Couples planning a wedding in the parish church were sent a letter asking them to discuss the music at least three months in advance.

Ultimately, it was for the local church authorities to decide which music might be played at either a wedding or a funeral. Mr Allister confessed to having "a much more open mind" about I Vow to Thee My Country.

He said its popularity had waned in the years since the wedding of the Prince of Wales. "It doesn't seem to have the slightest relevance to a wedding, though I can see it's got a point when being considered for Royalty."

Miss Williams and her fiance will celebrate their wedding on Sept 8. "I hope they have a very happy wedding day," said Mr Allister. Michael Allis, a lecturer at the Royal Academy of Music said it was a shame that so adaptable a tune as Jerusalem appeared to being interpreted "in a narrow way".

He added: "It is a great piece of music and loved by people of many shades of political opinion. I would say that those banning it should see the beauty of the piece."

(Nigel Bunyan in The Telegraph, August 9, 2001)
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/08/09/nwed09.xml

Jerusalem

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England’s mountains green?
And was the Holy Lamb of God
On England’s pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England’s green and pleasant land.


18 posted on 03/27/2005 6:17:25 PM PST by quidnunc (Omnis Gaul delenda est)
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To: Cicero
Yes. Augustine was a Roman. But he was also aware the world he lived in was dying and he would not miss its demise. There are greater things than worldly concerns; the City Of Man may decay and crumble into ruin while the City Of God endures unchanged and whole forever.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
29 posted on 03/27/2005 6:49:09 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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