Posted on 03/24/2005 7:17:27 AM PST by shroudie
Whether or not the carbon dating is accurate is beside the point. The person in the shroud may have been from the jerusalem area, but it ain't Jesus. The Bible specifically mentions that there were two parts to the burial clothes of Jesus. One for his head, one for his body-the disciples came in and saw the clothes that wrapped the body in a pile, and the "napkin" for his face folded neatly. The shroud is one continuous piece of cloth containing an outline of an entire person. If it is a real shroud, of a real person, it is not a shroud of Jesus Christ.
This figure doesn't surprise me. Example: A Royal Air Force female Sergeant at the RAF's experimental department solved the problem of the Spitfires carbureted engine from cutting out in a dive. All the RAF engineers and carburetor experts from Rolls Royce couldn't figure it out. Sgt. Beatrice Shilling proposed a simple stand pipe on the top of the float bowl to regulate the fuel flow when the engine was subjected to negative gravity, as in a dive.
How did she know this? She raced her own Norton motorcycles at the Brooklands Race track in the 30's. She had hands-on experience with carburetors and not just "virginal" theory.
That would be the Sudarium of Oviedo in Spain. The documented history of it is much longer than that of the shroud.
Beside the point!!!???....lol it was YOUR point, YOUR contention that because the carbon 'dating was 'read' as mid 1400's, it could not possibly be Jesus.
Stay on target...lol
Hmmmm ..please copy and paste your other points from YOUR post #2 that discuss two burial cloths. And while you're at it, set forth the scripture that states the two burial cloths JUST covered 1. the body (lower/upper torso only)and 2. JUST the head. I just read this afternoon that for preparation for entombment/burial the 'entire body' was enclosed in a burial cloth, wherein the head was ALSO separately enclosed by another cloth. Did a search...I'll make it easier on you ...just do a FR search. Go through the links.
There are a number of possibilities. Endless debates. You are taking the absolute stance the shroud is fake...wherein I am just illustrating how the carbon dating procedures/protocols were not valid, hence the so-called 'findings' of the carbon dating was/is severely questioned.
That is my point.
I'm not saying the shroud is fake. I'm saying whomever is in the shroud, it wasn't Jesus. The references to the seperate pieces of the burial clothing were listed by another poster.
John 20:3-8.
Sorry, I just can't take the shroud seriously at all.
Without any evidence to back up your opinion, why do you take yourself seriously?
Um, I've looked into it on multiple occasions. For me, it is VERY old news. It is up there with 200 MPG carbueretors that the oil companies secretly buy from inventors and other such nonsense.
I'm 51 and have been a Christian since 81. I didn't just hear about the shroud last year.
It is an irrelevant object, whether real or not.
To YOU it is irrelevant. I respect that. To me it is relevant; not as a foundation for my faith but as something I appreciate because of my faith. I think the evidence strongly favors authenticity.
Shroudie
Do you have a source for that claim? I have read almost everything written on the Shroud (as least in English and translations of many others) and have NEVER seen such a claim. There are wrinkles on the Shroud that have existed since (apparently) before its first exposition in 1350. If what you claim is true, they would have been "ironed" out long ago.
That being said, in 2002, a group of people were authorized to "restore" the Shroud... and they DID iron portions of it... They also stretched it in an attempt to remove the ancient wrinkles... and the Shroud is now 8cm LONGER than it was when it was measured in 1978.
What is "the more we know" that convinces you?
The Sudarium of Oviedo has a 1300 year provenance for certain... and at least another 300 in tradition. The most interesting thing is that the Sudarium covered the same head as the Shroud... there are more than 73 points of congruence, including matching blood stain locations.
There is also the veil of Veronica. Today it is housed in a Spanish Church and it is supposedly the veil that was used to clean Jesus's face as he made his way to Golgatha. The legend was that his features were left on this veil. The veils history has been documented. When it's image was scanned into a computer and compared to the Turin image many of the features, including the thorn wounds from the crown of thorns, "MATCHED". An art historian has noted that many Renaisannce Artists depict similar visages of Christ. He speculates that the Veil and afterward the Shroud was the inspiration for their works of art.
Believe it of Not? I believe.
This occurred about the time they repaired the burns in the Shroud.
More recently it's been determined the repairs were woven right into the fabric of the Shroud ~ just like the drycleaners used to advertise for "invisible repairs".
There are several thousand references to "ironing clothes" on the net, and one hit on a "history" subset noted "felting". We have to presume the concept of taking a hot flat iron to flatten a piece of cloth is fairly ancient if "felting" can be our model.
Yes, God left a Kodak moment behind. It's something very simple that exists only in our time, yet it's truly profound.
I'm guessing you started out believing it was a fake anyway, so we must be talking about "fakier" and "fakier", right?
Start telling us.
The "body" was alive when the blood and water came out.
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