Official After-Action Thread: March 19 Fayetteville, NC Support Our Troops Rally

Freepers, lurkers and assorted patriots ^ | March 19, 2005 | Constitution Day

[Constitution Day]

Today we met in Fayetteville, NC to Freep a motley rabble of socialists, anarchists, Code Pink-os, and other throwbacks to the 60's! As usual, we were well outnumbered by their hordes of college students, aging hippies and other bused-in protestors, but we held our own as always.

Please post any reports and observations on this thread only.

[Huber]

Thanks for posting FM. It becomes too difficult for the leftists to create a "successful action" when the public is pre-informed of what to expect. The left thrives when the primary source of information is the MSM. Fayetteville, with all of its vets, obviously has multiple alternative information networks. The left should stick to creating chaos in "sophisticated" towns like San Francisco, Berlin, Damascus and Paris.

[Doctor Raoul]

Click here for the actual thread on San Diego Indy Media

Contructive criticism of the anti-war mov't
spock | 23.03.2005 02:55

I've dropped out of the anti-war movement in the US, but I'm still against the war. I just can't agree or connect with the people who are leading it. I beleive it has some very serious flaws that prevent it from becoming a truely popular movement that appeals to broad sectors of the working class population. I belive it's on the decline and I know why.

The anti-war movement in the US is up for grabs to the highest bidders. If it isn’t being controlled by the Democratic Party for the purpose of getting pro-war candidates like Kerry elected, it’s being controlled by military families for the purpose of washing the Iraqi blood of their sons’ and daughters’ hands, lobbying Congress for better bereavement awards for themselves, lobbying Congress for better armor for the troops (to keep them alive longer so they can kill more Iraqis) and lobbying Congress for better pay and benefits for the troops.

If it isn’t being controlled by the above it’s being controlled by white 55+year-old professional peace gurus who refuse to count Iraqi military and resistance fighters’ deaths, who refuse to march or hold rallies in neighborhoods of color, who hold their marches and rallies when and where no working people are around, who think their peacenik culture is where it’s at.

If it isn’t them it’s the ANSWER “Marxists” who parade around in FARC hats and Castro hats, claiming that all prisoners in the US are political prisoners and trying to organize an armed forces union so US soldiers get more pay and benefits for murdering Iraqis, taking their orders from their higher-ups in New York.

All of the above are united to keep the anti-war movement in a state of limbo. All value the lives of the US troops more than the Iraqis’ lives. All support the US troops as they murder their way about in Iraq. All regard the US troops as blameless working class victims who were forced to join the military, forced to go to Iraq and forced to murder, torture, rape and maim Iraqis. All give the US troops impunity from their war crimes.

All are willing to be dishonest about the anti-war movement’s failure to reach out to working class people of all colors. All are willing to lie about the number of protestors at anti-war demonstrations. All refuse to admit that the anti-war movement in the US is failing miserably because of their misleadership, rampant opportunism and loyalty to the DP and US imperialism.

more on this in the future

interesting comment
23.03.2005 09:06

I agree with you on many of the points you made: it seems like the location of the rally is always Balboa Park, away from most poor and working class and non-white San diegans. It also seems hypocritical that large organizations, like ANSWER and SDCPJ would take on the some of the issues that they do. And ofcourse, people of Color have a Falloujha, and an Afghanistan right here. Everytime I take the Trolley to the South Bay and I go by Barrio Logan and Harbor Drive, and look over to the War Ships standing there, I get a chilling sense that just by some 'event' I am on the other side of the ships' guns. Prisions, Police, and Schools are 'terrorrizing' us in a way. The Border Patrol, the triple fence.

But something I don't agree with you on is on 'droping out'. You can take brakes, those are valid, but you never drop out. When you think you do, that is when you hide responsability in the closet. If the main organizations turn you off, (they turn me off too), start your own, join a small one, or just talk to your neighbors. As an Brown man in apartheid-like San diego, my brain is the only weapon, and self defense through direct action organizing, are some of the methods I have. Don't drop out, because you can't. in solidarity,

roman
e-mail:: decolonizing@yahoo.com

droppng out
23.03.2005 18:53

What I meant to say is that I've dropped out of their "peace" protestest scene. I can't stand their silly culture, their antics, their hypocrisy, etc.

I'll give you an example. In 2003, at the MLK Day Parade on Harbor Dr, about 2000 peacniks from the SD Coalition for Peace in the Middle East showed up. They were by far the largest contingency in the parade.

I stood on the sideline and watched almost the entire parade. From a spectator's view, they stuck out like a sore thumb.

Imagine watching this parade, seeing the many communities of color organizations, the high schools, the bands, the families, etc. It's primarily a community event, open to all, but appealing primarily to people of color as the crowd consisted of mostly of people of color, mostly black people.

Now image watching this parade and slowly comes this huge contingeny making its way down Harbor Dr. From far off, one asks: What could it be?

As it approaches it gets louder and louder. Contrary the the other contincencies, whose music is appealing to the crowd and often draws its participation, the peace contingency is beating drums, pots and pans to rythms that were totally foriegn to the crowd.

The crowd, instead of groving on the rythms (if you want to say the drums, pots and pans were beating to rythms), stops and stares. What the hell is this, was the expression on many faces in the crowd.

The SDCPJ contingency was 99% white. Some of them were dressed like 1960 hippies and dancing like they were at a Grateful Dead concert, high on acid, goofy.

It came off like it was intrusive. It carried a certain white arrogance about it. I doubt that it inspired anyone in the crowd to want to join the anti-war movement in the US. It most likely turned people off because of its arrogance and silliness.

Had it been led by an organization of working class people of color it could have had a positive effect. Instead, it was led by an old white woman who is out of touch with people of color, who is affraid to march with her peacenik fans in working class neighborhoods of color.

It's good to see that I'm not the only person who is disillusioned with the anti-war movement. There needs to be more of us and we need to get together.

spock

Response to Outdropper
23.03.2005 20:47

Your comments do not reveal whether you have attended any meetings of any of the groups participating in the anti-war movement. You may find more diversity in the meetings, & there you could offer constructive comments regarding their actions. I do know that some local trade unions are involved as are some Latino groups.

Often, people who drop out stand by the side to criticize the actions of those involved. What is that Chinese maxim? Those who are not doing it should not criticize those who are. Something like that.

I find it more remarkable that only hundreds, maybe a thousand, of people showed up at Balboa Park on March 19. Several hundred thousand people live within a twenty minute drive of the park. Does that mean that all those people approve of the invasion of Iraq & the lies emanating from the Bush administration? The parking lots of the malls I passed to get to the demonstraion were filled w/ cars. To them, it is more important to shop than care for the lives of the thousands of Iraqis who have perished in the invasion. The people of Falluja are without homes; the city is rubble. The children. . . . You do the research for the children of Iraq who have suffered and are still suffering from the invasion in 1990-91. The depleted & undepleted uranium used in ordnance has caused a large spike in the reported birth deformaties in Iraq.

You do the research. Some of us do care about the deaths in Iraq. Go to Iraq Body Count for reported deaths. Perhaps you would do better finding other constructive ways to criticize the war, the Bush administraion criminals, & the corporate thieves who are profiteering from the devastation in Iraq.

pithecuspete

God you people are so f**king doomed
3.2005 19:44

Solidarity with the Sunni head-choppers and car bombers of Iraq as they try to wreck an emerging democracy. Feel proud, you f**king scum.

Amos

to pithpete
25.03.2005 05:03

"What is that Chinese maxim? Those who are not doing it should not criticize those who are. Something like that."

Chinese or not, the quote is for nonthinkers. Here's why. Suppose the Nazis are marching down the street. Now, I'm not going to march with them. By your quote I should not criticize them. I should just remain silent as they goose step on by. The quote is absurd.

As for the comment about supporting people who chop off heads: I would say that chopping off a persons head is more human than death by cluster bombs, napalm, slow torture, sophocation, being lit on fire, etc - all methods employed by US troops in Iraq and approved of by herr Bush, der fuhrer.

Now, on this matter of democracy under occupation. If you think there can be a legitimate election, with secret candidats, hand picked political parties, US PR firms, no international observers, etc under an extremely brutal illegal occupation because Bush says so, then you must be a very ignorant person.

atticus finch

[BillF]

The hate-America, anti-war crowd are really unhinged as shown by the SD Indy material that you posted. That's why they don't become human shields to protect Iraqi children from the terrorists. That, and the fact that they only take actions to try to embarrass the U.S., frustrate its policies, or aid its enemies.

Incidentally, the "no oil for protests, walk home" chant belongs right up there in the future Doctor Raoul wing of the FReeper Hall of Fame. However, it took me three tries to get the audio file linked right.

[BillF]

In case, you didn't hear the audio of Alia describing her encounter with Medea Benjamin, Benjamin said that she liked Alia's sign. Benjamin also told Alia, "yours is one of the more civil signs." I think that was a round-about slam on your MOAB.

I would have loved to have a video or audio of you and Medea discussing your MOAB and why it's true. I bet that Medea would not find your sign to be civil and that she would not be civil discussing it IF she failed to notice the camera or recorder.

[RonDog]

"Purple Finger" at post 414 PING!

[brazzaville]

Good afternoon.

One of the things I have always thought amusing about the communist outrage over the death and destruction in Guernica is the fact that much of it was caused by secondary explosions from the huge munitions depot the communists had placed in the town.

Michael Frazier

[The Spirit Of Allegiance]

HUBER--CLASSIC!

Martin--Biker Ping Alert!


"Can somebody tell me why RT was not allowed to ride thier bikes."

Motorcycles can be rather loud, even louder than the amplified voice of a peace-loving spokesperson for the united oppressed proleteriat. Last year when distracted by such compelling and peace-loving speakers for the united oppressed proleteriat, some of the RT's accidently forgot to keep their bikes on "tip-toe" setting. Sadly, some of the peace-loving speakers for the united oppressed proleteriat were accidently drowned out.

[rantblogger]

You KNOW I'm lovin' THIS picture. This is a meme, that like Cheers in its un-noticed first season, has the potential to snowball. Refer to http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1361118/posts?page=75#75 from this year's Oscar's.

[rantblogger]

But I'm nowhere NEAR as cute as that kid.

[Tax-chick]

Thanks for the information, brazzaville! I used to have a print of "Guernica" on the wall of my dorm in college (also two Frederic Remingtons :-), but I didn't know any details. In fact, I can't think of any facts about the Spanish Civil War, other than it happened ... I'll request a book from the library!

[Tax-chick]

How can you have the cheerful giver that is required by God when Caesar's gun (the IRS) is at your head? Instead of giving Caesar (the government) the power, we need to teach people about God. The Godless socialist will only subjugate us under a human sinner (Bill Clinton) and expel God from our lives.

Bump that, bmwcycle! Socialism is evil.

[Tax-chick]

I'm nowhere NEAR as cute as that kid.

How can we tell, if you don't post your picture?

(Thanks - I'm her mother :-).

[BloomPa]

Letters to the Editor: Fayetteville Observer March 27th
http://www.fayettevillenc.com/story.php?Template=opinion&Story=6918724

What did the protests say to our troops?

I am disappointed with part of the Fayetteville (and surrounding) area concerning last weekend's protest. While every American has the right to free speech and demonstration, you wonder if these people ever take a minute to think about how we came upon these freedoms. Answer: through America's military and elected officials that we put into office. Honestly, what does it really say to America's troops when you mass together and bash what they signed up to do?

I grew up in a family where a number of my immediate family members were active duty 20-plus years, and I have never seen the disregard for service-related personnel as I have now. Frankly, it's embarrassing. I thank God that my father and grandfather, who both loved and served this country until the day they died, are not around to see the antics of "America's Most Patriotic City" - what an oxymoron.

It's kind of like that old saying, "You don't know what you've got until it's gone." Maybe losing every single inalienable right would make some of our lovely protesters appreciate what we have and how lucky we really are.

Thank you to the men and women who go out and fight for this great country. Their service and duty are appreciated beyond what words can say.

Amanda Stelzer, Fayetteville


By ignoring terrorism we forfeit our safety

After reading the March 20 headline, "Thousands protest war," another headline popped into mind. Thousands were dead and missing at the World Trade Center, Pentagon and Pennsylvania countryside. Terrorism was to blame and many wondered how this could happen in America. Who will pay for this? What will the president do to assure this can't happen again? Well, he is doing it!

I do not want to see my neighbors and children raped and beheaded in our streets. Terrorists need a stronghold and we deny them that by sending troops. American soldiers help free those who are oppressed from despots seeking worldwide strongholds. Liberation is the dream of the enslaved and the job of the American soldier.

The troops endure atrocities that we only see and hear of through media. Terrorists are murderers, and peace is not their objective. Reason and compassion for others are unknown to them, and if we ignore terrorism today, we forfeit tomorrow's safety.

It has been said, "If you can read, thank a teacher. If you can read freely and in English, thank a soldier." The protesters did demonstrate this: their right to freely and safely do so. The troops defend us and they need our support and gratitude. While protesters chose a day to shout, march and carry their messages, brave troops continue to protect and defend each of us every day.

Imagine the headline: "Protesters killed by insurgents in Fayetteville." Not here? Not in our lifetime? Think again.


Sarah Edwards, Fayetteville

[rantblogger]

The picture on 608, with bullhorn, is me.

[Huber]

Nice slogan on your megaphone! :-)

We've bailed out the French before! Ya just gotta love their intellectual imperviousness to reality!

Liberté - Egalité - Fraternité - Stupidité!

[Tax-chick]

Well, I have to agree that you're not as cute as Sally! But thank you for getting out there and confronting the leftists in (sigh) California!

[tgslTakoma]

Transcript and audio of Medea Benjamin's speech.

[gbwife]

I had to drop back in for a breath of fresh air!
Several days ago someone here linked an Alternet story and it got me thinking that I hadn't been on the Alternet site in years. (here's my confession: I'm a journalist by trade and a few years ago I used to write for Alternet and some other left-leaning papers before I saw the error of my ways.) Anyway, I stopped in an Alternet forum called "I support the troops but am opposed to war." Several days later, here I am ---back and amazed at the ignorance of the left.
Thanks for speeding my return to sanity!

[rantblogger]

When I moved to LA nearly 20 years ago, I was for gun control and raised slightly left of center.

Living in the shadow of the HOLLYWEIRD sign has been informative. I'm a libertarian-leaning GOP voter, new NRA member and more religious than ever. I enjoy good beer, good single malt scotch and an occasional excellent cigar. And of course I love joining the locals to FREEP the idiotarian left.

I'm doing what I can to make California a little "redder" day by day.

[rantblogger]

That's a keeper. Thanks.