Iwo Jima - A stupid Mistake?

LA TImes ^ | March 10, 2005 | Max Boot

[rcocean]

Our awe at the bravery of the Marines and their Japanese adversaries should not cause us to overlook the stupidity that forced them into this unnecessary meat grinder. Selective memories of World War II, which record only inspiring deeds and block out all waste and folly, create an impossible standard of perfection against which to judge contemporary conflicts.

[Robert A Cook PE]

The Pearl Harbor bombing, and loss of the Manila defenses so easily, quite properly scared hell out of the "armchair strategists" sitting in comfort in Pearl - and they made many changes between '41 and '44.

After '44, the built-in Pearl defenses and infrastructure) (largely already built) were relaxed somewhat, but converted after the war into "A-bomb" proof facilities where needed for comm gear, headquarters, etc when it became clear that Russia had the bomb and would likely use it first on Pearl and DC.

[Robert A Cook PE]

So you claim "refueling" is a bogus reason for an emergency landing when facing a 6 hour flight in a B-29 with notoriously lousy engines that frequently burned up with no warning?

A plane that falls into the drink 500 miles, 50 miles, 5
miles, or 50 feet short of the runway is still lost.

[brazzaville]

Since Harry Truman ordered the two bombs dropped we will never know how many casualties we would have taken in an invasion of Japan. The casualties we absorbed in taking Iwo and Okinawa give us a hint at how bad it could have been but that isn't the point of my responses to you.

The actual number of bomber crew losses we would have sustained had we not taken Iwo is less important than the fact that many lives and aircraft were saved and American boots were on Japanese soil. Whether we lost a million dead or 150,000 in an invasion of the home islands wouldn't change the fact that the clown at Smithsonian thought those losses were preferable to using the bomb.

Michael Frazier

[hosepipe]

[ Iwo Jima - A stupid Mistake? ]

True.. but hindsight is 20/20... Perfection only happens in leftists "dream-worlds"..
Rumsfield and Wolfowitz tactics seem to be working..
As they are dogged by WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War tactician holdovers.

Let's only hope Porter Goss is doing as well in his "work"..

With adults in charge we may have a chance..
Some of the Generals and Admirals belching on TV lately are obviously democrats. If a democrat had any sense they would not even be a democrat.. Promoting a democrat to that rank is promoting a weak link.. A perfect world would require NO democrats as officers only as enlisted men.. Just being a democrat outs you as being a malefactor.. or in therapy for Attention Deficit Disorder.. Zell Miller has taken an abnormally long time to "smell" the other rotting apples in that barrel.. Unless he likes that ordor.. Who knows,,, Maybe hes just dumb... On the other hand Chafee, Snowe, Spectre, and Jeffries (and other republicans) seem to love that smell..

[Michael.SF.]

That all makes sense, of course. Thank you.

[Yasotay]

While I agree that Kerry should not hold ANY office, I must say my first thought on reading your post was that I thought you were talking about Senator Bush ....

[gunnyg]

IWO JIMA NOT THE ONLY MISTAKE...

NOTE:

Iwo Jima was not the only mistake...

"Since General "Howling Mad" Smith, the capable corps commander of the Marines in the Fifth Fleet, wrote "Tarawa was a mistake," tens of thousands of words have been written in regard to whether Tarawa in the Gilbert Islands should have been the first objective in the amphibious drive across the Central Pacific. Comparatively little has been written about dropping Nauru from the Joint Chiefs of Staff directive, and replacing that island objective with Makin Atoll."

Ref
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ACTC/actc-16.html"

[ChadGore]

Re: Wars are difficult, criticism is easy.

As General Tommy Franks said in his book, while planning the liberation of Afghanistan and Iraq:

"The enemy gets a vote"

[Yasotay]

Your point is well taken.

Side note: Few people today know that General Custer was a key part in defeating Pickett's charge.

[Robert A Cook PE]

While I agree that Kerry should not hold ANY office, I must say my first thought on reading your post was that I thought you were talking about Senator Bush ....

? Senator Bush ?

Referencing "cowards" or "cowardly action in combat" ?

Consider that 29% of the type of high-performance jets that President Bush flew for three years crashed in "typical" non-combat training and patrol missions, I'd consider that he very adequately demonstrated his courage every time he strapped in the airplane and took off.

More than Kerry? Who tried to avoid combat when convenient, and left as soon as he could wrangle any excuse to return to NY? Debatable certainly.

[XJarhead]

Seems odd that three full divisions would have been committed to take an island we knew was "lightly defended."

[rcocean]

You must have forgotten these old LAT headlines:

Pearl Harbor Bombed-
Leahy and Kennedy Denounce Republicans-
Say Racist Anti-Japanese remarks brought on attack.

OR

Kennedy Filibusters promotion of Admiral Halsey
-Halsey accused of Racism
Democrats Demand sign at Tulagi Navy Base "Kill Japs, Kill Japs, Kill More Japs" be taken down & Apology provided to Japan.

[SZonian]

Thanks for the correction. I screwed up my dates as to which was first by not doing my homework.

Cheers!

[Yasotay]

Yes Senator Bush

Grandfather of Bush1 and father of Bush2. I do not remember all of the details but during WWII Senator Bush had large amounts of assets seized by the US Government because of his dealings with Nazi Germany. Post #77 started:

"As long as the cowards in Washington DC allow a traitor to serve in the US Senate we will see more of this stuff."

I will always think that one reason the Bushes didn't attack Kerry personally is because of Senator Bush. I will also always believe that Kerry is still the second greatest traitor in American history.

[Robert A Cook PE]

OK - Don't know enough to comment, but will look it up.

[SuziQ]

If Ted Kennedy had been in the Senate in 1945 (hard to believe, but he wasn't), he would have been hollering about the incompetence of the Roosevelt administration, which produced many times more casualties in five weeks than U.S. forces have suffered in Iraq in the last two years.

No he wouldn't, because Roosevelt wasn't a Republican.

[Rebelbase]

Bush's fault.

[PeterPrinciple]

Always liked your name. My uncle was wounded on Iwo Jima. Thought you might like the following site:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/PTO/Iwo/index.html

[PeterPrinciple]

What seems unecessary to YOU now seemed necessary then to the people in charge.

Quite right, The following was from the hyper war site:

The Joint Chiefs of Staff decided Iwo Jima must be captured and a U.S. airbase built there. This would eliminate Japanese bombing raids and the early warning interceptions, provide fighter escorts throughout the most dangerous portion of the long B-29 missions, and enable greater payloads at longer ranges. Iwo Jima in American hands would also provide a welcome emergency field for crippled B-29s returning from Tokyo. It would also protect the flank of the pending invasion of Okinawa. In October 1944 the Joint Chiefs directed Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, CinCPac, to seize and develop Iwo Jima within the ensuing three months. This launched Operation DETACHMENT.

[F16Fighter]

"Hindsight is 20/20.

At the time, it did seem like the necessary thing to do.

No one, no one in military at all, knew that the bomb was going to change things."

True, hindsight is always 20/20, but then again EVERY decision ever made is, isn't it?

Once the butchering began on the beach, it was time to withdraw and re-group.

A decision was made that "X" number of troops was going to be expendable, just as with most other battles during WWII.

"Taking the hill at all costs" is a "strategy" that has thankfully been sent to the ash heap of military planning.