Same Sex Marriage In Canada? (A Cogent Defense Of Traditional Marriage From Stephen Harper)

02/16/05 | Stephen Harper

[goldstategop]

Canada's Liberal Government introduced Bill C-38 to establish same sex marriage as law of the land. Conservative Party Leader Stephen Harper issued a cogent defense of traditional marriage and asked the House Of Commons to block Bill C-38 for failing to uphold marriage as the union of one man and one woman. Its a time-tested value and the foundational institution of society. No civilized country has ever scrapped it - and the onus is upon those who do want to discard it in the name of transient and temporary interests as the Liberal Government seems wont to do.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

[max_bshp]

About a year ago there was another conservative (don't remember the name) that had an interesting idea, let the government totally scrap the term "Marriage" from its books and replace all marriages with civil unions, let the religions use the term marriage (then they can have their special club and the traditional term defined however they want) and everyone else can use the civil union term for "official" governement use (taxation and the such).

I always found it interesting that the folks that want to desperetly hang on to the marriage term and have civil unions for gay/lesbian couples always said that they (gays etc) should be happy with the concession and let well enough alone but never answered the question of if they would be happy with a civil union instead of a marriage themselves.

Get the government out of the business of marrying people and religion in general, they have no place there except for taxation reasons (currently you need a marriage license anyway from the gov't so this should represent minimal overhead) and it really shouldn't matter to them what the economic unit is called.

[Betaille]

"civil union term for "official" governement use (taxation and the such)."
BIG PROBLEM. If you give any two people who want to form a "civil union" the benefits of marriage tax brackets, you will basically be eliminating the protection that our tax code gives to married couples. There is nothing in the language of "civil union" to discourage 2 straight roomates from forming one for tax reasons. that's the question the gay marriage/civil union crowd can't seem toanswer.

[Lord Nelson]

Martin promised to end the absolute monarchy that was presided over by King Cretan. At one day and age, MPs represented their constituents and voted their conscience. But of all parties, the Canadian Liberal party had become the most tyrannical party of them all. Those who don't toe party line are stripped of their cabinet position and made backbenchers.

Martin promised to end that, but I guess he feels foisting his will on Canada is bigger priority. While Harper, and the 2 other major parties have said they will not interfere in a free vote from their members, Martin has already told his members to vote his way or face the consequences. He obviously knows there are many catholics in his party, and some of them actually practice their faith. Given the right to vote freely there may be a chance the bill fails. Martin is determined to not allow that to happen and will sacrifice a free society for it.

Canada barely knows what a free society is. Via Kyoto, the government again is foisting its ideals upon free Canadians. Business is expected to comply with costly emission reductions based on faulty science.

I truly believe gay marriage is the slippery slope. Once that is allowed how can we deny the rights of polygamists or even those that want to marry their barn yard animals. The scariest aspect is gay marriage will lead us down the path of children raised by lesbians and homosexuals.

[Lord Nelson]

Here is a very well spoken and intelligent man and yet Canadians will only give him 26% of the vote. Yet they will give the Liberal party, the most wasteful and corrupt party in Canadian history 40% of the vote.

This government couldn't even answer the question on the day care debate. The Conservatives asked why aren't traditional families being encouraged in this nation - those that choose to have one person stay home? Why am I as a taxpayer paying the babysit someone else's children. This is typical socialism. Take from one segment of the middle class (the productive) and and give to another segment of the middle class (the non-productive).

[goldstategop]

Stephen Harper proposes reserving marriage for a man and a woman but allowing other partnerships - such as civil unions - to be created for gays and lesbians. Its a middle ground and it affirms society's understanding of marriage while allowing a minority to make a life as a couple in a civilized society. The law is a teacher. And the Canadian Government seems to believe in an all or nothing solution. There is no need to throw out the baby with the bath water. No other country has abolished traditional marriage. If the Canadian people could vote on the subject, they would not do so either. Consider Harper's following proposal as indicative of conservative thought today:

Our proposal is that the law should continue to recognize the traditional definition of marriage as the union of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others, but at the same time we would propose that other forms of union, however structured, by appropriate provincial legislation, whether called registered partnerships, domestic partnerships, civil unions or whatever, should be entitled to the same legal rights, privileges and obligations as marriage.

And what is wrong with this? Nothing perhaps, except to extremists whose real goal is less to seek equality than in their determination to subvert the consensus that helps keep a society alive. They are the enemy within.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

[goldstategop]

There is a distinction between marriage and lesser forms of social partnerships. It is precisely the sacred quality of this distinction the Left seeks to abolish. That is why their goal is not so much to get at the opposite sex character of traditional marriage as it is in the fact that it presupposes a recognition absolute equality in the life of a civilized society is impossible. Ipse dixit, as Ann Coulter would say.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

[goldstategop]

The law is a great teacher. And elevating same sex marriage to law of the land will not only unleash all of the evils you have rightly described. It also mean the beginning of the end of religious values. After all, if same sex marriage has government backing, this means people with convictions that differ from that of the government are outlaws. The gay agenda and to a significant extent, the Left's agenda, isn't quite simply about allowing gays to get married - its to brand people they disagree with as bigots and people holding quaint values. Conservatives have always believed in the importance of tradition and hierarchy as indispensable to an orderly society. Same sex marriage in the bottom line, is an assault on civilized life itself and cannot be countenanced.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

[Betaille]

I used to agree with you(feel that lesser civil unions may be okay) but recently I have become opposed to that idea. I came to the realization that there is absolutely nothing stopping me and another straight friend of mine from setting up one of these "civil unions" for ourselves to save on our taxes. Once people see this loophole, the tax protection given to married couples raising children is gone.

[goldstategop]

The Left is very well entrenched in Canada. The country may be beyond saving. Still, the debate over there offers a glimpse into the sort of future the American Left wants here the States. When people in 11 states last November could vote on whether to uphold traditional marriage, it won by a landslide. We must see to it America does not go down the path of decline and societal collapse we're witnessing in Canada. I do not know of any society that abolished traditional marriage and managed to endure.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

[goldstategop]

We can create a set of benefits reserved only for married partners to close that loophole. Anyway, I do agree the point is probably a moot one since the Left will not for their own reasons accept a compromise. For them equality is not the name of the game. They do not want to enter the last citadel of society to join it but rather to demolish from within. And that is why same sex marriage is really a Trojan Horse. It has nothing to with couples being able to live together. They can already do that without needing society's approval. Why they want is it is another question.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

[max_bshp]

Oh, personally I don't really care that much about gays or lesbians, not that I am hostile to them, just that they don't really factor into my life. And the proposal by Mr Harper is probably the way it will come down IRL.

However, what I do care about is that basicly by keeping the tradational term as is the government will essentially create an exclusive club to which only straight people can belong. Personally I don't think the gov't should be creating special clubs for people, for any real reason. The reason I like this other idea is that it makes everyone the same both in terminology and in practice, however I know it won't fly because the vote base just isn't there for it.

Mr. Harpers proposal is a middle ground approach and typically Canadian which is why it has a massive appeal for the electorate, Liberals and Conservatives alike. This will all come out in the Commons.

[Lord Nelson]

Yes, you are correct. Hate crime laws were the first nail in the coffin. This will be the second. Obviously homosexuality is not a common topic at the pulpit, but one day a pastor is going to preach the truth, that homosexuality is a sin. A liberal member of his congregation is going to complain to the government. Next will be a law passed demanding all Churches to sign a declaration every year that they will not preach against homosexuality. If they refuse their charity status will be revoked. We ARE under attack.

[goldstategop]

If Prime Minister Martin allows his Liberal MPs a free vote, I think something like Harper's proposal would certainly pass. Its not perfect but its a workable compromise. It avoids the extremes and still preserves traditional marriage. The real question is whether the Liberal Party is willing to allow Canadian representatives to have an open say in this momentuous decision? We'll see.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

[Lord Nelson]

With that said, we should never give up. Harper is fighting and rightfully so. Perhaps Liberal members will take a risk and vote their hearts and defeat this bill?

But yes, we have 3 socialistic parties. Canada is the only nation in the West that restricts access to TV networks. And the only nation still refusing to allow private health care establishments from providing Universal Healthcare. In fact the only nation that refuses to allow user fees or claw backs for service.

[goldstategop]

Of course. Same sex marriage is the foot in the door. Assuming C-38 passes unaltered, we can expect a wholesale attack on religious groups next. All in the name of making gays feel equal. As I said, the law is a great teacher and decline and social collapse in Canada in a generation or two is not out of the question if the Government ignores the need to keep the most fundamental social guardrail in place.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

[max_bshp]

lol, he better allow a free vote, he may have a revolt on his hands if he doesn't, never mind the fact that the libs will be very hard pressed to win another election if he doesn't, hell they will probably have a hard time even if he does allow a free vote.

[Lord Nelson]

Not this PM. This is the adminstration that did not consult BC residents on lifting the moritorium on offshore drilling. They only consulted invited guests in small coastal communities and coastal natives. The majority of them are against it, and so that will likely be the end of it. To hell with me, who also lives in BC.

[goldstategop]

That's true. Corrupt Liberals, socialist New Democrats and secessionist Bloquistes. Whatta country! In many respects, Harper's Conservatives are to the left of American Republicans. But they're considered too reactionary by the Canadian Left because they sound - well, so common sense. That's what makes them dangerous in Canada.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."

[goldstategop]

Don't get your hopes up. The Left in Canada is 70% of the population and my guess is the Liberals will probably win a majority in the next election. Too many Canadians fear their country becoming too much like America.

Denny Crane: "There are two places to find the truth. First God and then Fox News."