"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend... those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig."
Posted on 02/12/2005 11:59:27 AM PST by NYer
Rome, Feb. 11, 2005 (CNA) - Forensic scientists in Italy are working on a different kind of investigation—one that dates back 2000 years.
In an astounding announcement, the scientists think they may have re-created an image of Jesus Christ when He was a 12-year old boy.
Using the Shroud of Turin, a centuries-old linen cloth, which many believe bears the face of the crucified Christ, the investigators first created a computer-modeled, composite picture of the Christ’s face.
Dr. Carlo Bui, one of the scientists said that, “the face of the man on the shroud is the face of a suffering man. He has a deeply ruined nose. It was certainly struck."
Then, using techniques usually reserved for investigating missing persons, they back dated the image to create the closest thing many will ever see to a photograph of the young Christ.
“Without a doubt, the eyes... That is, the deepness of the eyes, the central part of the face in its complexity”, said forensic scientist Andrea Amore, one of the chief investigators who made the discovery.
The shroud itself, a 14-foot long by 3.5-foot wide woven cloth believed by many to be the burial shroud of Jesus, is receiving renewed attention lately.
A Los Alamos, New Mexico scientist has recently cast grave doubt that the carbon dating originally used to date the shroud was valid. This would suggest that the shroud may in fact be 2000 years old after all, placing it precisely in the period of Christ’s crucifixion.
Most likely politically correct liberals.
The fact of Israel's rejection of the Christ was prophesied. It's a part of the scriptural record. Whether they believe in Christ or not is immaterial to the fact of his authority and existance. The truth of scripture is the truth of scripture whether accepted or not. It's not a matter of If you believe it, fine - if you don't, fine. It is the truth. Period. End of statement.
Obviously, the Orthodox do not acccept the authority of the Pope. Obviosuly the world is not made accoridng to Havoc! Obviously you live in a make-believe world. Wakup call!
Whether the orthodox accept the authority of the Pope or not is irrelevant to this argument. We're not examining decisions made. We're examining how and why decisions are made and the proper process for it. Latin rite says you're going to hell if you think you're saved and yet don't pay due dilligence to the Pope. That is their statement, but on what is it based.. their say so? I submit to you, that they're right. Prove me wrong. I can do the opposite and say they're wrong. Prove them right. Based on what you're saying, anything pretty much goes if you choose to believe it. That is not the standard God defined in scripture. He was rather more strict than that. And when it's my soul on the line, you better come up with something more convincing than, well we just believe it. That ain't gonna cut it. And per the warnings of the Apostles, if you come preaching a gospel other than was preached by them, you're to be corrected and turned away if you don't accept correction. How does that fit your model? Right, it doesn't. You can forgo the wakeup call, I've been awake. I'm saying things that are taught in basic English Comp. It's amazing that heathens understand this and you don't. Faith doesn't make purgatory true or idol veneration a holy act. If you can't prove it in authoritative scripture, you're just whistling past the graveyard blown about by any wind of doctrine that takes your fancy.
No, I am an Orthodox catholic.
The orthodox understanding is that the three are personae, not "energies"
The confusion started with Latin translations from Greek and the words hypostasis and ousia. The West thinks of One God in three Persons; the East as Three separate but of one essence personal manifestations of One God. Their interaction is known as the Divine Economy. God's Wisdom, Word and Spirit are nor passive, as in our case, manifestations of our beings, but movers (energeia in Greek), that posses working power, efficiency.
We use anthropomorphic terminology (i.e. assigning Him human characteristics) to describe God because we can't describe Him otherwise (our mental and linguistic limitations fail to adequately understand, describe or imagine the eternal, ineffable God). Hence we use such analogies as God's eyes, God's anger, God's right side, and so on, including God's Son. Such anthropomorphism leads to pagan imagery and concepts of God as being essentially human in nature and affect as we are.
I did not adopt Athansius' argument. I don't know what sect you come from but if you claim Jesus as your Christ you are not even on the margins of Christianity.
There is absolute thruth. Trouble is -- you can't prove it. You can only believe in it. And that leaves you scared.
We may not know it all; but, as much as resides in scripture we do know and have the capacity by the mind of Christ to understand. You're making excuses for ignorance.
Ignorance is bliss and you are basking in it! For three hundred years the Fathers debated what is inspired and what not. You obviously know nothing of the Church history. Yes, the Fathers knew scripture when they saw it, but there were numerous false "Gospels" and manuscripts floating around that had to be separated, and even those that some thought were genuine others thought not -- while others thought of false as acceptable. You really need to learn some facts for a change.
Oh, I'm well aware of the facts. I've been studying comparative religion since the late 80s. I've been debating religion for more than Six years now. And you are still making excuses.
There are 33,000 or more Protestant 'denominations'
Who cares. I'm a Christian. There are 33,000 different ideas about what Catholicism is. Who cares. There is One Christianity with One master - Jesus Christ. We don't all believe with imperfect knowledge, we believe or disbelieve based on what we are taught from scripture or learn from scripture on our own. You apparently haven't learned from scripture. You've learned plenty of philosophy; but, that won't save you or excuse what you accept that is unscriptural. Understand, in the end, you'll be judged based on the Word of God. You can't go before God scratching your head and saying 'sorry God, we have an imperfect knowledge and just can't know you..' You'll wear a God-sized bootprint on your butt as you scream on the way back down. Stop trying to beg excuse here for five seconds and imagine begging excuse before God. And keep in mind the passage where in he states: Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" You're without excuse. And what I just did was state it from proper authority.
Why would it leave me scared? I'm genuinely comforted in it. There is a Just God who's laws are immovable and unchanging. He is Just and Merciful. And as far as I'm concerned, is the only real source of Justice in the universe. I'm on His side and moreover am a child of God and a priest after Christ's blessing as are all Christians. What have I to fear. I know the truth and have no concern for the future. I'm not the one here making excuses for not knowing God, bud.
It infuriates Latin rite Catholics to note that if a person is left on an island with a Bible, they can never become a Catholic because all the philosophy required is absent. I find that truly informative.
Excuses? I am merely aware that humans are finite beings. What we know is finite and imperfect. We believe with imperfect knowledge. I don't care how many DDs or PhDs you put behind your name, or how long you studied this or that, you will still know only part of the Truth.
Prove it! Or admit that it's merely your belief.
There is so much truth in just reading the Bible that we have more than 33,000 Protestant bible thumping sects, EACH claiming to have THE true interpretation of it! Now that's really impressive. And reassuring! And convincing.
Romans - no excuses.
For your information, Eastern Orthodoxy is not based on doctrine; dogma is foreign to Orthodox phronema. Orthoodxy is spiritual and not academic. Monasticism is the core of Orthodox life. Not philosophy.
Has nothing to do with the Bible and everything to do with their philosophy. Protestant and Catholic sects are what they are because of philosophy or the lack thereof. Most of them subscribe to some philosophy that they give wholesale assent to whilest attacking scripture that disagrees with their philosophy. All you've noted is that there are lots of philosophies out there. The Bible isn't responsible for that; but, the Bible is the authority that helps us see who the pretenders are. It's how we can point to someone rewriting the ten commandments and leaving one out and say, Uh, scuse', you missed one...
That's pathetic. You are proving the Bible with the Bible just so you would not, out of pride and arrogance, admit that your relationship with God is based on faith and nothing but the faith and belief that the Bible is His word.
Uh, I wasn't talking to you or about you.. why are you acting as though I was?
No, you've already accepted the Bible as scripture, you're just avoiding it's authority now. Why is that.
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