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Freemasonry's Influence in Europe
Zenit.org ^ | January 30, 2005 | Zenit

Posted on 01/30/2005 7:07:08 PM PST by AncientAirs

Incompatible With Christian Religion, Says Historian

MADRID, Spain, JAN. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- To understand what is happening in Europe, the phenomenon of Masonry must be taken into account, says Protestant historian César Vidal.

The director of the program "La Linterna" of the Spanish bishops' COPE radio network, Vidal has just written a book, "Los Masones: La Historia de la Sociedad Secreta Más Poderosa" (The Freemasons: History of the Most Powerful Secret Society), published by Planeta.

Among other things, the book addresses the Masonic influence in the most important events of recent Spanish history, especially since the election last March of the Spanish Socialist Labor Party (PSOE).

Vidal says that "the secularist current promoted by the government headed by José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero shares more than enough Masonry's rank anti-clericalism."

The author explains that the Freemasons have an enormous role in the European Union and, by way of example, says that "the project of the European Constitution has been driven by a Freemason," Valéry Giscard D'Estaing, "who has excluded mention of the continent's Christian roots and, in addition, has insisted on the inclusion of an article that subjects the churches of the different nations but frees 'philosophical organizations' from that obligation."

Vidal has doctorates in history, philosophy and theology, and a law degree.

Q: Which outstanding personalities in Spain were and are Masons, a fact known by very few people?

Vidal: The list would be too long and some, only some, are mentioned in my book "The Freemasons." Suffice it to say by way of illustration that the Grand Master of the great Spanish east is Dr. Josep Corominas, PSOE deputy; that the special five-member commission that established Felipe González as the PSOE's secretary-general has three Masons among its members -- one of them the future president of the Senate -- and that Rodríguez Zapatero's grandfather was a Freemason.

Q: Can it be said that Masonry is behind the secularist current that is being witnessed in Spain?

Vidal: What can be said without danger of exaggeration is that the secularist current promoted by the government that José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero heads shares, more than enough, Masonry's rank anti-clericalism.

Q: What role does it have and might have in the European Union?

Vidal: Enormous if one takes into account that the project of the European Constitution has been promoted by a Freemason who has excluded mention of the continent's Christian roots and, in addition, has insisted on the inclusion of an article that subjects the Churches to the different nations but frees "philosophical organizations" from that obligation.

Q: In what way, over the last century, has Masonry been present in the history of Spain?

Vidal: Repeatedly and lamentably. A very important role must be attributed to Masonry in the pro-independence movements of Cuba and the Philippines, in anti-clerical and secularist campaigns, in the erosion of the parliamentary monarchy of the Restoration, going so far as to take recourse to terrorism, in the proclamation of the Second Republic and, very especially, in the redaction of a Republican Constitution which created a social break that led to the Civil War.

Q: Can you tell us about concrete events that prove its struggle against Catholicism?

Vidal: That is the history of Masonry since the 18th century, but suffice it to recall, by way of example, that Rodolfo Llopis, Freemason and Socialist, became secretary-general of the PSOE [and] promoted the anti-Christian educational legislation of the Second Republic; or scandals such as that of the Banca Ambrosiana which were linked directly to the Masons' action.

Q: What were Masonry's origins?

Vidal: The real origins of Masonry date back to the end of the 17th and early 18th centuries, when groups of individuals attracted by occult gnosis founded meeting places in which, supposedly, it was transmitted.

Of course, they talk about origins that refer to pagan religions, to gnosis, to a nonexistent personality of Solomon's time and also to the druids.

Q: What are its most characteristic features, objectives and present structure? Is it a religion?

Vidal: Though Freemasons deny it, the truth is that the Masonic cosmo-vision is not one proper to a philanthropic society as they often say, but that of a religion. That circumstance explains, precisely, the repeated condemnations of the Holy See and of the other Christian confessions, which consider membership in Masonry incompatible with Christianity.

Masonry might be described as a secret society, with an initiative structure, a gnostic cosmo-vision, and an existential manifestation which makes it easy for its members to help one another when it comes to occupying important posts in society.

Q: What percentage of Freemasons are there at present?

Vidal: Without a doubt, very small. In France it is said that they are not more than 0.6% of the population. However, that has not prevented their controlling the Socialist International or their spreading in the Right itself, through personalities such as Giscard D'Estaing.

Q: In what vital points of our society -- especially in economic, political and intellectual circles and the media -- are Freemasons present?

Vidal: There are sectors that have always been of interest to Freemasons. Needless to say, politics where they control the Socialist International and have entered powerfully in parties of the Right. No less is their weight in the world of communications and, very especially, their interest in education, justice and the armed forces.

In France, for example, the "affaire des fiches" revealed to what extent Masonic officers were promoted and Catholics, on the contrary, blocked from promotion. ZE05013020


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: bookreview; conspiracy; europe; fourthreich; freemasons; freethewelderstoo; fremasonry; influence; inuendo; nofacts; religion; spain; spam; stonecutters; tinfoil; valrygiscarddestaing; whotheheckiszenit; zapatero
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To: Trinity_Tx

=== If you feel qualified to denounce their folly, it's obvious you believe that your moral convictions are superior to theirs.


I still think you're framing things somewhat incorrectly.

I need be no more or less "moral" than the cunning vipers of Vatican II to see the objective evidence of what destruction their revolution has wrought in the Church.

A "moral" judgment, rather, would be more along the lines of your respecting your father's love of Christ and his associations but eschewing them, nonetheless.

I'm not rejecting something I know to be a true "Good" in that it's okay for others but not necessary for me ... I'm rejecting a bent and evil deformation of doctrine not only on the basis of its being intrinsically flawed logically but in light of the overwhelming empirical evidence that is the decay, dissent, discord and destruction it's left in its wake.


401 posted on 02/06/2005 8:09:20 PM PST by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: Askel5
You say that you don't really know much about Freemasonry and that is why you ask questions.

No,you don't know anything at all about Masonry,but yes,you do far more than ask questions;you libel ALL Masons and attempt to tar them with your spurious tinfoil prose.

Is Opus Dei a cult? Freemasonry is NOT a cult,but you say that "Opus Dei is a cult. You can think of them as the masons of the Catholic church if you like."

Are the Knights of Columbus a cult?

The Knights of Columbus was begun the the Catholic church to be the replacement organization for Catholic Masons,who were threatened and forbade to be Masons.It's a poor copy, BTW.

Please explain what particular form of architecture is the epitome of Freemasonry's structural form.Kindly explain this in detail.

How is a Masonic Lodge set up? Where is the bible and the candles placed and where are they to be found? And since you claim to know "NOTHING" at all about Freemasonry,how do you knows this information?

Whitewashing and lying about the nature of Christianity's beginnings and the Catholic church's absorption of a great many pagan holidays,gods and goddesses and even wells,springs,and other sites,is not only hypocritical,but totally disingenuous on your part.Also,up until the end of the 20th century,the Catholic church was still condemning Jews for all sorts of things and reviling them.Unlike your church,you are smearing Protestants in just about every post to this thread,that you make.

The Catholic church was and is more "multi-culti" than the ancient Roman Empire was,in it's absorption of things totally foriegn to how things were when Christ was here on earth,in the flesh,telling,FIRST HAND,what was what and conducting services.

402 posted on 02/06/2005 8:37:17 PM PST by nopardons
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To: PresbyRev
Yes, I've been to St. Peter's. It's a pity more don't have your understanding that is "fresh meaning in light of Christ."

I still don't think the move to re-form churches along Masonic lines is a grave disordering of the Church's teaching. The Church is deeply symbolic ... not only in the imagery (primarily of the Bible) we portray on the walls but in our very gestures such as kneeling before that which Christ said "is" His body as part of the Eucharist we celebrate per His clear instruction.

The Church is most explicit about the postures and rituals attendant to baptism or holy orders. I'd like to read something explaining the "meaning" behind the postures and rituals of Masonry.

I don't think it would be such a bad thing for Masons to be forthright about such things. After all, as Judge Martin says, Knowing What (You) are Can Truly Save (You).

For, bottom line, absent some explicit understanding of what you are and why, credos such as:

Human progress is our cause,
liberty of thought our supreme wish,
freedom of conscience our mission,
and the guarantee of equal rights to all people everywhere
our ultimate goal.

sound not only utopian but also revolutionary. Can a Christian truly wish "freedom of conscience" and "liberty of thought"? To what extent?

And how is it that an exclusive organization premised on degrees of membership (initiation in the rites and knowledge of secrets) possible trumpet "equal rights to all people everywhere"?

If I could reconcile the basic premises, I'd be happy. Thank you again for your posts.

403 posted on 02/06/2005 8:40:00 PM PST by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: Askel5
"I need be no more or less "moral" than the cunning vipers of Vatican II to see the objective evidence of what destruction their revolution has wrought in the Church."

That's very true. Anyone, even the lowest of the low, can, and in fact find it easy to, judge others, even the Pope, as being "bent and evil cunning vipers" as you do.

But, the person who does make such judgements must indeed feel themselves morally superior, unless they also admit to being an evil, bent, and cunning viper.

If they do admit to such, their moral judgements on others is quite worthless.
404 posted on 02/06/2005 8:40:08 PM PST by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)
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To: PresbyRev

=== Liturgy in the language of the people is a gain; not a loss.


The Latin Mass always had a translation on the facing page. The whole dust-up about the vernacular was merely a vehicle by which to sic the revisionists on the Gospel to begin changing pronouns, distorting original translations and rendering the Word so ugly and tuneless that no man could be expected to listen to it for long.


405 posted on 02/06/2005 8:42:24 PM PST by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: nopardons

=== The Knights of Columbus was begun the the Catholic church to be the replacement organization for Catholic Masons,who were threatened and forbade to be Masons.It's a poor copy, BTW.


Ah ... finally! Something tangible.

Please explain for me why the Knights is a "poor copy" of the Masons. That ought to give me something concrete to work from. Thanks, nopardons.


406 posted on 02/06/2005 8:45:10 PM PST by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: Askel5
You're the one who writes "expert" testimony about things you know nothing at all about,so I'll leave it to you,to tell us all about the Knights of Columbus vis-a-vis the Masons.

But before you do that trick,answer the questions I've already put to you and which you keep ignoring;whilst you continue to post the ignorant, vile, calumny all over this thread.

407 posted on 02/06/2005 8:50:46 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Trinity_Tx

I don't consider all who supported Vatican II "cunning vipers." There's a huge difference between those pereti who were instrumental in wrecking the liturgy or who turned the mic off Cardinal Otaviani even as he was speaking. You want to talk "odious" ... try reading some real-time accounts of the goings-on at Vatican II. Hateful stuff on the part of the "touchy-feely" contingent.

In fact, I'd go so far to say that most enlisted to support the cause were Useful Idiots. I think you forget that ignorance is invincible and that my use of "Useful Idiot" in no way translates to some moral judgment on the poor sap in question.

Folks buy the Big Lie all the time. That doesn't mean they're necessarily stupid or evil, just unable for whatever reason to cut through the PR and agit-prop to see things as they are.

That's just one of the reasons Christ indeed did berate the Pharisees and made perfectly clear that it would be better to be tossed into the sea with a millstone round one's neck than to scandalize a little one ... or otherwise lead one of His sheep to the slaughter.

The evidence is clear. The revolution decimated the faith of Catholics across AmChurch and in Europe particularly. These men will account one day for their part in losing souls to secularism and operating more in line with the wishes of the Rockefellers than the Pope.


408 posted on 02/06/2005 8:53:27 PM PST by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: Trinity_Tx; nopardons; uglybiker

As an aside:

My thanks to all those who are defending Freemasons on this (yet another anti-Mason) thread - those pinged and others.



409 posted on 02/06/2005 8:53:46 PM PST by PresbyRev (All truth is God's truth: post tenebras, Lux!)
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To: Askel5

The Rockefellers now run the Catholic church?


410 posted on 02/06/2005 8:58:23 PM PST by nopardons
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To: PresbyRev
My thanks to YOU,for posting such informative,factual,and interesting replies,with which to defend Freemasonry,Masons and Masonic family member against the ignorant,bilious lies and contemptible slurs made some here.
411 posted on 02/06/2005 9:00:56 PM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
Is Opus Dei a cult? Freemasonry is NOT a cult,but you say that "Opus Dei is a cult. You can think of them as the masons of the Catholic church if you like."

Well, that one you answered for yourself. Much appreciated.

Are the Knights of Columbus a cult?

No. Sadly enough, the Knights are barely even Catholic anymore. Nearly impossible to get these manly-men to touch the subject of abortion and their numbers -- like those of Masons -- appear to be dropping for lack of substantive meaning to the organization.

Please explain what particular form of architecture is the epitome of Freemasonry's structural form.Kindly explain this in detail.

The most important detail is the placing of man at the center of the sanctuary. Traditionally (and you'll appreciate this being a Mason "equal rights for all" sort), the priest AND the congregation ALL faced the altar which always faced east toward the rising sun. Nowadays, churches are built in all manner of directions and shapes and the priest has usurped the place of the tabernacle.

How is a Masonic Lodge set up? Where is the bible and the candles placed and where are they to be found? And since you claim to know "NOTHING" at all about Freemasonry,how do you knows this information?

I happened upon a link to the House of the Temple one day. I was struck by how much it looked like a modern Catholic Church. Curious, I surfed about and read enough to realize that the layout of Masonic temples is just as important to them as the layout of a Christian church is (or used to be) to Christians.

Will you answer my question now regarding your assertion that the Knights is a "poor imitation" of the Masons?

Meanwhile, I'll be hanging with the Israelis who seem to know a lot more about Masonry's meanings and origins than you folks do. And their links actually work ... as opposed to 90% of the archives from which I took the Judge's editorial.

412 posted on 02/06/2005 9:21:33 PM PST by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: Askel5
Israel is a country of immigrants. The cosmopolitan origin of its population is reflected in the large number of Lodges operating in foreign languages. Apart from Israel's two official languages (Hebrew and Arabic), there are Lodges working in six other languages: English, French, Spanish, German, Romanian, and Turkish.

No Russian? Odd.

Israeli Freemasonry.

413 posted on 02/06/2005 9:28:20 PM PST by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: Askel5
Well, I'm glad you don't feel that your moral convictions are superior to *all* who support Vatican II. You admit that *some* of them are just "ignorant, Useful Idiots".

Would these "poor saps," who are just as moral, but dumber than you, include the Pope?

Then, you say:
I think you forget that ignorance is invincible and that my use of "Useful Idiot" in no way translates to some moral judgment on the poor sap in question.
No... I'm not the one who forgets. You were the one accusing me of feeling morally superior to my father simply because I am not as sure of the Bible story as he is.
414 posted on 02/06/2005 9:29:54 PM PST by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)
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To: Askel5
Why is a secular organization making belief in a supreme being their first requirement? That's the more interesting question

I suppose the Boy Scouts are an evil communist front organization secretly controlled by Jewish Masonic Protestant Satanists or, ummm, something.

415 posted on 02/06/2005 9:30:08 PM PST by malakhi
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To: Askel5
How Glorious is our Lord in Zion, Russian Masonic hymn which "Since 1856 by the October of 1917 the 37 bells of the main tower of Moscow Kremlin tolled Bortnyansy's hymn at 3 p.m. and at 9 p.m. (at noon and at 6 p.m. they tolled the Guard's "Preobrazhensky March"). "
416 posted on 02/06/2005 9:33:34 PM PST by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: malakhi

I thought the Boy Scouts were a Christian organization.

Again, I'll ask the question: are homosexuals excluded from Masonry?


417 posted on 02/06/2005 9:37:42 PM PST by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: AncientAirs

read later


418 posted on 02/06/2005 9:39:02 PM PST by wallcrawlr (www.bionicear.com)
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To: Askel5
Instead of being a "religious cult," Masonry might better be referred to as an ethical society. Ethical values such as "brotherly love, relief, and truth" are taught through the use of ritual and myth. These teachings are reinforced by the use of the numerous symbols found in Masonic Lodges and in Masonic teachings. Many of these symbols, such as the square, level, and plumb, were taken from the building trades.

At the focal point in a Masonic Lodge is the Altar, which is located at its center with an open Bible (the inestimable gift of G-d to man), square, and compasses.

Altars are normally found in places of religious worship. Why, then, would a Masonic Lodge have an Altar in its center? If a god or gods, or the "Great Architect of the Universe" is worshiped here, doesn't this make Freemasonry a religion?

It is easy to mistake the complex rituals and beautiful symbolism of Freemasonry with those of an established religion. They are not. The only religious involvement in Masonry is that a Mason must profess his belief in a Supreme Being. Other than that, a mason's religious convictions are kept within the temple of his own heart and are his private business.

The open Bible, which represents the Judeo-Christian heritage, is found on the Masonic Altar. Does this mean that other revelations of the word of G-d are not welcome?

Not so. The Bible should be regarded symbolically, as the "word of G-d", with the identity of G-d being left to the conscience of the individual Mason. In this way, the Bible becomes a symbol for G-d and a reminder that G-d speaks to man. Masonry is a world-wide fraternity and other scriptures, such as the Torah and the Koran are found on Masonic Altars in other parts of the world (see Editor's Note below).

The Mason refers to G-d as "The Great Architect of the Universe" and prayer is an important part of Masonic ritual. However, while respecting all religions, great care is taken at all times to show preference to none. The Craft wants its Brethren to be religious men, but considers that the particular religion is an individual choice. By doing this, religious tolerance is encouraged and Masonry has a rich multi-cultural and religious heritage within its ranks.

Freemasonry is neither an enemy nor a substitute for established religion. Instead of undermining traditional religious beliefs, Masonry, through its rituals, teachings, and symbolism, contributes to reinforce those values of "friendship, morality and brotherly love" that are the foundations of religious movements around the world.

Editor's Note: The Grand Lodge in Israel, for example, places three volumes of the Sacred Law on its Altars: the Tanach (Hebrew Bible), the New Testament, and the Koran.

Freemasonry and Religion by David Brownback.

419 posted on 02/06/2005 9:39:35 PM PST by Askel5 († Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. †)
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To: Askel5
Human progress is our cause,
liberty of thought our supreme wish,
freedom of conscience our mission, and the guarantee of equal rights to all people everywhere our ultimate goal.
..."sound not only utopian but also revolutionary. Can a Christian truly wish "freedom of conscience" and "liberty of thought"? To what extent?"
Revolutionary indeed. Sounds just like our founding fathers concepts, as well as the Biblical concept of Free Will.
420 posted on 02/06/2005 9:43:41 PM PST by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)
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