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hysterical Darwinites panic
crosswalk ^ | 2004 | creationist

Posted on 01/28/2005 4:28:41 PM PST by metacognative

Panicked Evolutionists: The Stephen Meyer Controversy

The theory of evolution is a tottering house of ideological cards that is more about cherished mythology than honest intellectual endeavor. Evolutionists treat their cherished theory like a fragile object of veneration and worship--and so it is. Panic is a sure sign of intellectual insecurity, and evolutionists have every reason to be insecure, for their theory is falling apart.

The latest evidence of this panic comes in a controversy that followed a highly specialized article published in an even more specialized scientific journal. Stephen C. Meyer, Director of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture, wrote an article accepted for publication in Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington. The article, entitled "The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories," was published after three independent judges deemed it worthy and ready for publication. The use of such judges is standard operating procedure among "peer-reviewed" academic journals, and is considered the gold standard for academic publication.

The readership for such a journal is incredibly small, and the Biological Society of Washington does not commonly come to the attention of the nation's journalists and the general public. Nevertheless, soon after Dr. Meyer's article appeared, the self-appointed protectors of Darwinism went into full apoplexy. Internet websites and scientific newsletters came alive with outrage and embarrassment, for Dr. Meyer's article suggested that evolution just might not be the best explanation for the development of life forms. The ensuing controversy was greater than might be expected if Dr. Meyer had argued that the world is flat or that hot is cold.

Eugenie C. Scott, Executive Director of the National Center for Science Education, told The Scientist that Dr. Meyer's article came to her attention when members of the Biological Society of Washington contacted her office. "Many members of the society were stunned about the article," she told The Scientist, and she described the article as "recycled material quite common in the intelligent design community." Dr. Scott, a well known and ardent defender of evolutionary theory, called Dr. Meyer's article "substandard science" and argued that the article should never have been published in any scientific journal.

Within days, the Biological Society of Washington, intimidated by the response of the evolutionary defenders, released a statement apologizing for the publication of the article. According to the Chronicle of Higher Education, the society's governing council claimed that the article "was published without the prior knowledge of the council." The statement went on to declare: "We have met and determined that all of us would have deemed this paper inappropriate for the pages of the Proceedings." The society's president, Roy W. McDiarmid, a scientist at the U.S. Geological Survey, blamed the article's publication on the journal's previous editor, Richard Sternberg, who now serves as a fellow at the National Center for Biotechnology Information at the National Institute of Health. "My conclusion on this," McDiarmid said, "was that it was a really bad judgment call on the editor's part."

What is it about Dr. Stephen Meyer's paper that has caused such an uproar? Meyer, who holds a Ph.D. from Cambridge University, argued in his paper that the contemporary form of evolutionary theory now dominant in the academy, known as "Neo-Darwinism," fails to account for the development of higher life forms and the complexity of living organisms. Pointing to what evolutionists identify as the "Cambrian explosion," Meyer argued that "the geologically sudden appearance of many new animal body plans" cannot be accounted for by Darwinian theory, "neo" or otherwise.

Accepting the scientific claim that the Cambrian explosion took place "about 530 million years ago," Meyer went on to explain that the "remarkable jump in the specified complexity or 'complex specified information' [CSI] of the biological world" cannot be explained by evolutionary theory.

The heart of Dr. Meyer's argument is found in this scientifically-loaded passage: "Neo-Darwinism seeks to explain the origin of new information, form, and structure as a result of selection acting on randomly arising variation at a very low level within the biological hierarchy, mainly, within the genetic text. Yet the major morphological innovations depend on a specificity of arrangement at a much higher level of the organizational hierarchy, a level that DNA alone does not determine. Yet if DNA is not wholly responsible for body plan morphogenesis, then DNA sequences can mutate indefinitely, without regard to realistic probabilistic limits, and still not produce a new body plan. Thus, the mechanism of natural selection acting on random mutations in DNA cannot in principle generate novel body plans, including those that first arose in the Cambrian explosion."

In simpler terms, the mechanism of natural selection, central to evolutionary theory, cannot possibly account for the development of so many varied and complex life forms simply by mutations in DNA. Rather, some conscious design--thus requiring a Designer--is necessary to explain the emergence of these life forms.

In the remainder of his paper, Meyer attacks the intellectual inadequacies of evolutionary theory and argues for what is now known as the "design Hypothesis." As he argued, "Conscious and rational agents have, as a part of their powers of purposive intelligence, the capacity to design information-rich parts and to organize those parts into functional information-rich systems and hierarchies." As he went on to assert, "We know of no other causal entity or process that has this capacity." In other words, the development of the multitude of higher life forms found on the planet can be explained only by the guidance of a rational agent--a Designer--whose plan is evident in the design.

Meyer's article was enough to cause hysteria in the evolutionists' camp. Knowing that their theory lacks intellectual credibility, the evolutionists respond by raising the volume, offering the equivalent of scientific shrieks and screams whenever their cherished theory is criticized--much less in one of their own cherished journals. As Dr. John West, Associate Director of the Discovery Institute explained, "Instead of addressing the paper's argument or inviting counterarguments or rebuttal, the society has resorted to affirming what amounts to a doctrinal statement in an effort to stifle scientific debate. They're trying to stop scientific discussion before it even starts."

When the Biological Society of Washington issued its embarrassing apology for publishing the paper, the organization pledged that arguments for Intelligent Design "will not be addressed in future issues of the Proceedings," regardless of whether the paper passes peer review.

From the perspective of panicked evolutionists, the Intelligent Design movement represents a formidable adversary and a constant irritant. The defenders of Intelligent Design are undermining evolutionary theory at multiple levels, and they refuse to go away. The panicked evolutionists respond with name-calling, labeling Intelligent Design proponents as "creationists," thereby hoping to prevent any scientific debate before it starts.

Intelligent Design is not tantamount to the biblical doctrine of creation. Theologically, Intelligent Design falls far short of requiring any affirmation of the doctrine of creation as revealed in the Bible. Nevertheless, it is a useful and important intellectual tool, and a scientific movement with great promise. The real significance of Intelligent Design theory and its related movement is the success with which it undermines the materialistic and naturalistic worldview central to the theory of evolution.

For the Christian believer, the Bible presents the compelling and authoritative case for God's creation of the cosmos. Specifically, the Bible provides us with the ultimate truth concerning human origins and the special creation of human beings as the creatures made in God's own image. Thus, though we believe in more than Intelligent Design, we certainly do not believe in less. We should celebrate the confusion and consternation now so evident among the evolutionists. Dr. Stephen Meyer's article--and the controversy it has spawned--has caught evolutionary scientists with their intellectual pants down.

_______________________________________

R. Albert Mohler, Jr


TOPICS: Philosophy
KEYWORDS: bablefish; crackpottery; crevolist; darwinuts; darwinuttery; design; dontpanic; evolution; flatearthers; graspingatstraws; hyperbolic; idiocy; ignorance; intelligent; laughingstock; purpleprose; sciencehaters; sillydarwinalchemy; stephenmeyer; superstition; unscientific; yourepanickingnotme
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To: js1138
I can't understand why some people have a narrow definition of mater. If it interacts with matter, it is matter. We may not know what it is or know how to talk about it yet, but if we can detect the interaction we can study its properties. If we can't detect the interaction then we have nothing to study and not a whole lot to talk about.

I'm sorry that I didn't pick up your above before posting #2039 or I would have pinged you also.

2,041 posted on 02/09/2005 10:21:04 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: js1138; betty boop
Er, if I may. js1138 said:

I would like to say that the dramatic change in the properties of matter in complex structures is, in my thinking, evidence against design. It seems unlikely that anything less than an omniscient being could anticipate the emergent properties of matter, particularly its behavior in an ecosystem.

That seems to be the underlying point of ID, to illustrate the need for an omniscient being. I'm not in a position to say this isn't the case, but omniscience seems like a dead end to me. How can you be conscious if all of time and space is perceived simultaneously? Rotten luck, an eternity of ennui.

The ability to see all of time and space at once is obviously a property of God. But it could also be a property of other beings. Not us of course because it is beyond our four dimensional vision and mental capabilities. And even if we had that perception, it would require an extra temporal dimension so what we sense as a timeline would be a plane.

However, such a field of view would be the aspect of a mathematical structure in a higher dimension:

Tegmark: Parallel Universes

A mathematical structure is an abstract, immutable entity existing outside of space and time. If history were a movie, the structure would correspond not to a single frame of it but to the entire videotape. Consider, for example, a world made up of pointlike particles moving around in three-dimensional space. In four-dimensional spacetime--the bird perspective--these particle trajectories resemble a tangle of spaghetti. If the frog sees a particle moving with constant velocity, the bird sees a straight strand of uncooked spaghetti. If the frog sees a pair of orbiting particles, the bird sees two spaghetti strands intertwined like a double helix. To the frog, the world is described by Newton's laws of motion and gravitation. To the bird, it is described by the geometry of the pasta--a mathematical structure. The frog itself is merely a thick bundle of pasta, whose highly complex intertwining corresponds to a cluster of particles that store and process information. Our universe is far more complicated than this example, and scientists do not yet know to what, if any, mathematical structure it corresponds.

Which brings me back to the point I was making at post 1974:

It has been said that the surest statements we can make are mathematical – in this case, it would be that any “thing” must have space/time coordinates and thus consists of fields (which are defined as existing in all points of space/time) and geometry. That is what makes it corporeal. But that is not what makes it “alive”.

To follow on Tegmark's remark about the frog (emphasis mine): "The frog itself is merely a thick bundle of pasta, whose highly complex intertwining corresponds to a cluster of particles that store and process information." here's the Shannon definition of information again:

Information is the reduction of uncertainty (entropy) in the receiver or molecular machine in going from a before state to an after state

It is so crystal clear to me that the proper definition of life v non-life/death is Shannon information-based. When a "thing" in nature successful communicates it is alive, when it stops, it is dead; if it never successfully communicated, it is non-life.

2,042 posted on 02/09/2005 11:05:33 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop
"I don't have time to provide you an education in physics and thermodynamics. "

He doesn't have time to correct you, but he does have time to infer you are an idiot. He implies he has mastered particle theory, but he doesn't make time to point out how in error you are. But, otoh, he does MAKE time to attack Christians and Creationism here at FR. These folks are getting more and more predictable.

2,043 posted on 02/10/2005 4:40:14 AM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: Right Wing Professor

"I will leave YECs alone when they stop trying to force their ridiculous and anti-scientific ideas on public schools."

I see. So if YECs take their kids out of public school, and choose to home school, would that be ok with you? Or should some gov't entity be assigned the task to enforce 'science' education upon all kids?


2,044 posted on 02/10/2005 4:43:33 AM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon.htm)
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To: gobucks
So if YECs take their kids out of public school, and choose to home school, would that be ok with you?

They can bring up their kids as they wish. It's not the gummint's business.

2,045 posted on 02/10/2005 5:57:25 AM PST by Right Wing Professor (Evolve or die!)
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To: betty boop
...Man simply isn't the "measure": He is part and participant in a system that does not depend on him for its truth.

So, what you are saying is that if a tree falls in the forest, and there is no human there to hear, it still makes a sound?

Thank you. That one has been bugging me since high school! 8^>

2,046 posted on 02/10/2005 7:53:02 AM PST by RobRoy (They're trying to find themselves an audience. Their deductions need applause - Peter Gabriel)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Let's get to the heart of the matter. Which of these uses will serve as the definition? Matter is material, stuff you buy at the lumberyard and have delivered by truck. When you pick it up it resists your fingers. But don't look too closely, because that piece of lumber is made of nothing. It is empty space. Bent, twisted space. What is it that is bent, twisted, warped of that space? That is matter.

Wiki-pedia schmiki-pedia

2,047 posted on 02/10/2005 9:14:21 AM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Have you come across the name of Bruce Lipton? Bookmark it. Fractal evolution. DNA not the key to life; $billions wasted.

The world was transformed last night. N Korea has nukes, Charles will marry what's her name, and cells are intelligent.

2,048 posted on 02/10/2005 9:33:12 AM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: RobRoy
So, what you are saying is that if a tree falls in the forest, and there is no human there to hear, it still makes a sound?

LOL RobRoy! Sure. The critturs can hear it. At least it seems reasonable to conclude that they do, for we know that critturs respond sensitively to signals they receive from their environment. Presumably they do so, even when we humans aren't there to check up on them. :^)

2,049 posted on 02/10/2005 9:52:45 AM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop
But you'll notice this is not a material quantity that I'm speaking of here.

That is where we differ. I simply don't accept that statement.

2,050 posted on 02/10/2005 9:58:11 AM PST by js1138
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To: RightWhale; betty boop; Physicist
Thank you for your reply!

Let's get to the heart of the matter.

LOLOL! That is another meaning of the word "matter" - used frequently by lawyers.

But, alas, you were challenging us for a definition of "matter" with regard to physics. And that is what I offered as a response in post 2039.

What is it that is bent, twisted, warped of that space? That is matter.

At bottom, matter is one form of energy. Light has energy and momentum but it doesn't have a rest mass. When we broach the energy-momentum tensor we start entering confusion on the subject.

Therefore, I prefer my "geometric" description that matter has "space/time coordinates and thus consists of fields (which are defined as existing in all points of space/time) and geometry". That hedges the question about Higgs, dark matter and dark energy - but, I believe, captures the idea you have been asserting. If I had been making your assertions, I would have used the term "corporeal" rather than "matter".

At any rate, perhaps Physicist can help by providing for us (and thus authenticating) a definition for the term "matter" - after which we can adjust our prior arguments to be accurate.

2,051 posted on 02/10/2005 10:08:55 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: js1138; Alamo-Girl; marron; PatrickHenry; cornelis; StJacques; ckilmer; escapefromboston; ...
That is where we differ. I simply don't accept that statement.

OK, you rule out in principle that information is not "material." So, what do you rule in? I mean beyond making a simple, sweeping contrary assertion, what is the basis of your supposition that information must have an exclusively material basis, other than a strong prejudice in favor of a theory of omnicompetent matter? What evidence do you have for asserting this, etc.?

2,052 posted on 02/10/2005 10:17:01 AM PST by betty boop
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To: Alamo-Girl
I find the matrix concept most powerful. Without saying what it is--mostly because we apparently cannot ultimately know--it is that out of which everything is made, bosons and fermions and all relationships in all the fractal orders all the way up and down the spectrum of order. I wouldn't restrict the enquiry to physics even though physicists are naturally closest to admitting a higher power.
2,053 posted on 02/10/2005 10:20:02 AM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: RightWhale; betty boop
Thank you for your reply!

I hadn't heard of Bruce Lipton at all, but I presume you are speaking of this person.

The world was transformed last night. N Korea has nukes, Charles will marry what's her name, and cells are intelligent.

Certainly, North Korea fessing up to nukes and Charles to his affections for Camille are no surprise to anyone. But what is this about cells being intelligent? Is that the Lipton assertion in a nutshell?

If you are trying to equate Lipton to what betty boop and I (and Schneider and Adami et al) are saying about "information theory and molecular biology" you would be in error.

Information (Shannon) is the reduction of uncertainty (entropy) in the receiver or molecular machine in going from a before state to an after state. It is successful communication. It does not address the value or meaning of the message at all, hence "intelligence" is not part of the formulation.

Of course, one might consider the semiosis to be a sign of intelligence - the encoding and decoding of the message (which in biological systems is the DNA or RNA) - but the Shannon-Weaver model couldn't care less about the value of the message. It is only concerned with the successful communication of it.

2,054 posted on 02/10/2005 10:20:40 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

Wow. Awesome post.


2,055 posted on 02/10/2005 10:22:42 AM PST by bvw
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To: RightWhale; betty boop; js1138
Thank you so much for your reply!

Without saying what it is--mostly because we apparently cannot ultimately know--it is that out of which everything is made, bosons and fermions and all relationships in all the fractal orders all the way up and down the spectrum of order.

Evidently this is the divide between you and js1138 on the one hand and betty boop and I on the other.

To your side "everything" is corporeal. The definition of "reality" or "all that there is" being "that which exists in nature".

betty boop and I see quite a bit more than the corporeal: mathematical structures, Platonist forms, pi, geometry, information, qualia (pain/pleasure, likes/dislikes), consciousness, the mind, soul and spirit to name a few.

The wikipedia definition has a great insight at the bottom of its definition of matter - that it stands in contrast to form. In your worldview, evidently there is no form - but rather that form is an epiphenomenon.

2,056 posted on 02/10/2005 10:30:27 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: bvw
Thank you oh so very much, bvw! Hugs!
2,057 posted on 02/10/2005 10:31:04 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
cells being intelligent? Is that the Lipton assertion in a nutshell?

It is what I have asserted in less elegant language. I also see that intelligence is a property of the particles that make up cells, and of bodies that cells form, and of socities that bodies form. Blame it on Teilhard. Also Mandelbrot. The same organization on scales from subatomic particles to galactic clusters. Are we a trace contaminant of the universe?

2,058 posted on 02/10/2005 10:34:31 AM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

The form is function, process. All quantities and qualities are Bridgman processes. This encompasses corporia and behavior and moral law.


2,059 posted on 02/10/2005 10:38:34 AM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Would Occam's theory accept 22/7ths for pi? So much more simpler. The first theory you gave for the universe is not fully stated. Its only 22/7th-ish. What's missing? Material existance and physics. In that theory those are the gods. The apriori presumption. And the slopist's third is a crock -- why? Because even the slopist first admits imagination and imaginer.

Existance causes itself? Mastrubatory or tautologic. Still a deism. And flawed too, even accorded to Occam.

So what makes G-d a simpler theory? Only that we are as we are. "We are as we are" is not the same as "It all is".

2,060 posted on 02/10/2005 10:38:46 AM PST by bvw
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