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To: Dominick

Um. Luke 22:19-20 CLEARLY defines his body and his blood. From Jesus's own mouth:
19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

It doesn't say he broke off his arm and they all munched on it. He gave them this bread and wine as a symbol of his flesh and blood, and said later, "this do in remembrance of me"

And I don't care how you try and justify the 15 promises of Mary. They clearly state that anyone who prays to her, their soul will not perish. And that is still, and always will be, heresy. And I will not believe for a second that she actually said those things, because Mary knew that the only way to Heaven was through Jesus and God. And I don't think she would have said she could see to it anyone was saved. I will let you know now, that I will no longer argue this point. Because you do not care what the Bible says. And that's all I have for reference.


130 posted on 01/14/2005 6:41:40 AM PST by melbell (There are 10 types of people in the world...those who understand binary, and those who don't.)
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To: melbell
Luke 22:19-20 CLEARLY defines his body and his blood.

Doesn't contradict what he said, and what the Apostles taught, which is what Christians do. The Bible was written by men from the Early Church as a reference. To understand the teachings, those same men wrote each other letters, wrote out lectures, and even preached with a scribe writing them down in Greek, the trade tongue of the time. Many of these writings are in the Bible as inspired. Many writings also exists that make it clear what they wrote out in the inspired writings.

Those writings are available to anyone who wishes to see them, even you. You would know the Apostles taught that the bread of the altar becomes the Lords Body, in a real way. Not symbolic.

I sought to assist you in you "distress" I see you now only seek to bash the Church, without understanding the teachings of it.

The dead in Heaven pray, and offer prayer to God unceasingly. You mean you couldn't find that in the Bible? What do you think they were doing when they said, "Holy Holy Holy Lord..."

Your lack of actual scholarship, instead of looking for yourself what the Church teaches is a problem for you. That is the real tragedy, and that leads to actual Heresy. One is thinking the only way Christ could offer his body for us to eat is by actually breaking off his arm.

He is God you know. Oh wait, Trinity isn't in the Bible, is it...
133 posted on 01/14/2005 7:00:59 AM PST by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: melbell
It doesn't say he broke off his arm and they all munched on it. He gave them this bread and wine as a symbol of his flesh and blood, and said later, "this do in remembrance of me"

Silly rabbit. If you can't understand Ch. 6, you're among the disciples that walked away from Christ in Chapter 6:66... ah -- I believe this is also where JUDAS turned his heart against Christ - because he couldn't grasp the teaching of the Eucharist.

Please, please read the Old Testament and learn a thing or two about the Passover sacrifice, the blood of the Lamb, the necessity of a living sacrifice to God, the celebration of this sacrifice as fulfillment of the Old Law through the Holy Mass... It's all there. This is not by accident.

Read the Church Fathers (there's that "f-word" again) and discover what has been taught from day one - that the Holy Eucharist is truly the body and blood of Christ. It's there. It's in the public domain. It's not a secret except to those who refuse to do their due dilligence before proclaiming their "holier than thou" interpretation of God's will for mankind...

158 posted on 01/14/2005 9:09:28 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
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To: melbell
It doesn't say he broke off his arm and they all munched on it. He gave them this bread and wine as a symbol of his flesh and blood, and said later, "this do in remembrance of me"

From the Gospel of John (King James Version):

6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
6:48 I am that bread of life.
6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

6:52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?

6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
6:59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard [this], said,

This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

Are you sure you shouldn't be worshiping in synagogue, melbell?

206 posted on 01/14/2005 12:34:24 PM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: melbell
It doesn't say he broke off his arm and they all munched on it. He gave them this bread and wine as a symbol of his flesh and blood, and said later, "this do in remembrance of me"

From the Gospel of John (King James Version):

6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
6:48 I am that bread of life.
6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

6:52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?

6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
6:59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard [this], said,

This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

Are you sure you shouldn't be worshiping in synagogue, melbell?

207 posted on 01/14/2005 12:36:22 PM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: melbell

how can you be guilty against the body and blood of Christ when, according to you, they are merely trifle symbols.


227 posted on 01/15/2005 9:12:10 AM PST by CouncilofTrent (Quo Primum...)
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