Posted on 01/13/2005 8:10:49 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
(AGI) - Vatican City, 12 Jan - The Pope commented today on the Apocalypse before the 7,000 people attending the General Papal Audience today in the Nervi Hall, indicating that the fight between good and evil, personified by Satan, is a very hard one, as shown by the manifold violence and injustice in the world today, however the outcome is certain, evil will be vanquished. Pope John Paul II explained, "God and the Lamb, Christ, surrounded by the 'Council of the Crown', are judging human history in good and evil, but showing us however the ultimate end in salvation and glory. The songs which are found in the Apocalypse and which serve to illustrate the issue of divine glory which regulates the flux, often disconcerting, of the tide of human events". Of great significance is the first part of the hymn intoned by the 24 ancients who seem to incarnate the chosen people in their two historic stages, the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve apostles of the Church. The Pope continued, Satan, the original adversary, who accused our brothers in the heavenly court, has now been cast down from heaven and therefore no longer has great power. He knows he has not much time left because history is about to see a radical turning point in freedom from evil and therefore he is reacting full of great fury. And then the resurrected Christ will rise up, whose blood is the principle of salvation and who received from the Father royal power over the entire universe, in Him are centred salvation, strength and the kingdom of our God. In his victory are associated the Christian martyrs who chose the path of the cross, not yielding to evil and it virulence, but delivering themselves to the Father and uniting themselves to the death of Christ by means of a testimony of donation and courage which brought them to give up life in order to die". He concluded, "the words of the Apocalypse regarding those who have vanquished Satan and evil through the blood of the Lamb, echo also in the splendid prayer attributed to the Christian martyr Simeon, from Seleucia-Ctesifonte in Persia, 'I will receive life without pain, worry, anguish, persecutor, persecuted, oppressor, oppressed, tyrant or victim, there I will see no threat of king, or terror of prefects, no-one will quote me in court or terrorise me and no-one will drag me or scare me". (AGI) . 121425 GEN 05
Only Arminian / semi-Pelagian "preachers" would make such a claim.
I think you miss the gist of the statement also. If we die in Christ, we gain, not loose life.
Well I guess it is different strokes for different Popes
I prefer the Pope that gave Spain a dispensation from NOT eating meat on Friday as a reward for KICKING the Muslims butt in Spain and booting them out of Europe ( many thanks to Charlton Heston EL CID)
And Gregaory VII who wanted to raise his own 50,000 man army to take care of the problems in the ME
Of course it does. Read Revelation. The martyrs in heaven cry out for the justice of God toward the evildoers on Earth...
See my post 60
Huh? What did I claim that it didn't say. I provided direct quotes for almost everything.
The following article quotes Justin Martyr as referring to the millenium as being a far off event. This view clearly predates Augustines interpretation of the milennium as being the current church by two centuries.
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**That he would voice these things publicly is truly profound.**
So true!
I didn't miss it, I was appalled by it.
"Huh? What did I claim that it didn't say. I provided direct quotes for almost everything." ~ DannyTN
This:
"There are a lot of things in Revelations that cannot be accounted for in history. For example:
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."
You could never have written that if you had actually read the article. Anyone who actually believes that Christ has already returned (the "second coming") is believing heresy. (That heretical view is called FULL preterism). The person who wrote that article does not hold that belief, yet you accuse him of it, and it makes your other questions and comments in that post regarding that subject irrelevant.
The rest of the stuff you wrote is nothing more than your own personal view of eschatology, which is, as I said, one of the variations of a 160-year young "end times" doctrine called "dispensationalism". The early church held no such eschatological view --- as I showed you in post # 157.
Blasphemy and Heresy!!! MARY CANNOT SAVE YOU FROM ANYTHING. And neither can praying to her. This is just ONE of the examples of some of the horrendous things I have seen on that website. When I first read this I CRIED all the way through. This is one of the saddest things I have ever seen. That people actually believe this.
****
Yes I know... they also call her The Queen of Heaven, and immaculate conception means SHE was born without sin. Then you throw in purgatory which is where you go to atone for your own sins, destroying the saving blood of Christ.
What most catholics don't understand is that we do not attack them, we are against the system that will destroy their souls with her demonic doctrines or doctrines of devils and deception as the bible said would come. People worship their systems more than they worship God and defend their systems with a vengence even if you can prove their doctrines to be heresy. It is SO deceptive that "if it were possible even the very elect of God will be deceived." It will look good!!! "The traditions of men make the word of God of NO EFFECT." Yet so many stand on their traditions which is nothing but sand. It is indeed heartbreaking to watch, all you can do is speak truth, pray for those sitting in a system that has existed since Genesis altho she changed her appearance in 313A.D.
The bible says..the antichrist will declare that Jesus was not born in the flesh. If Mary was born without original sin (or fleshly) and we know the Holy Spirit was not fleshly then WHO is their Jesus, other than the one we were warned about. It is written...Many will come saying I am the Christ (not an imposter but that Jesus is the Messiah) but in their ways they will deny me. Do I believe there are Christians sitting in this Harlot (and sorry folks but Protestant is getting just as polluted) organized religion? Yes...or God would not have said,"Come out of her my people, so you will not receive the judgements I am about to bring on her."
We have 2 paths to choose from....a wide one and a narrow one with a gate. Christ is that gate, "The only way to the Father is thru the Son." The Holy Spirit is our Comforter and our TEACHER. People of the earth LISTEN!!
IF we have it sooooo right in our current form of religions WHY are we getting so corrupt? What is the fruit of all the churches? (and there is one on every street corner) Big Business tied to a gov. with their tax exempt status? Building million $$$ extentions? WHAT about the poor? WHAT about the elderly who can't afford their prescriptions? Organized Religion does just ENOUGH to make herself look good and the rest is obvious. I will say no more, and I will answer no posts. We are at the door of the Day of Sorrows, we have seen NOTHING yet. My heart aches for people. No one has to listen to me, "Ye shall know the TRUTH and the TRUTH shall make you free."
If people would search for truth like they would a pot of silver in an acre field, they will find it, leaving no stone unturned. If people truly want to know God and not try to make Him in THEIR image, He is right there, He is waiting BUT He isn't going to wait forever. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that who so ever should believe in HIM will not perish but have everlasting life."
"Come OUT of her MY PEOPLE." selah
all the Mischiefs, beyond Expression, with which Popery is Pregnant--to keep from the cruel Hands of Barbarians and Papists your Wives, your Children, your Parents, your Friends--to secure the Liberties conveyed to you
Here is a nice example of religious appeals to serve a secular project. That Mr. Davies had a genuine horror of popery I have no doubt. But it’s telling that in extolling the “blessings of liberty” he makes it quite clear that he means British Liberty – from which, as you may know, Catholics at the time were constitutionally disqualified by the Penal Laws.
But of course, British Liberty is not the point at all when one speaks of freedom in Christ. Jesus is not a means to the Greater Good of British Liberty, American Liberty, or any man-made order. It’s Jesus himself who is the end of man, and it’s in his sovereign kingship that the only enduring freedom is to be found. We are not speaking here of freedom of conscience or free markets or freedom of the press. We are talking about theosis: freedom from death, heirship in the Kingdom of God, a share in the very life of God.
I do think the Livingston piece is admirable however. It's timely too, and I'd invite you to post it on a thread of its own, but for fear of seeing you banned as disloyal.
Oh really???????
Read the bottom line: "Justin Martyr (c. 100-c. 165) and Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130-c. 200) Justin ...allowed for other interpretations [other than premill]: "I and many others are of this ["end times"] opinion, and believe that such will take place … but, on the other hand, many [of his contemporaries] who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise."
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