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Congress bans lighters from airliners
Seattle PI ^ | Dec 8, 2004 | Leslie Miller

Posted on 12/08/2004 2:40:01 PM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection

Passengers already are barred from smoking on commercial flights. Now they won't be allowed to bring their butane lighters on board either.

As part of the intelligence reform bill passed Wednesday, Congress added the lighters to the long list of banned items, including scissors, pen knives and box cutters.

Democratic Sens. Ron Wyden of Oregon and Byron Dorgan of North Dakota had pushed for the change for more than a year after learning the Transportation Security Administration allowed them on planes.

"When I found out that they had explicitly, in their rule, said you could take two butane lighters and four books of matches on board, I thought, 'What have they been drinking?'" Dorgan said. Matches still are allowed.

Dorgan cited FBI reports that would-be "shoe-bomber" Richard Reid would have been able to ignite his explosive and blow up a trans-Atlantic jetliner three years ago if he'd brought a butane lighter with him.

Wyden and Dorgan were so persistent in their campaign against the incendiary devices that Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., joked earlier this year that he never thought butane lighters would get so much attention.

"This is probably not the biggest thing in the world," Dorgan said. "But it's one of those areas where a big government agency couldn't develop a little bit of common sense about something so obvious."

The ban takes effect 60 days after President Bush signs the intelligence reform bill into law.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: airlinesecurity; intel8reform; intelligencereform; tsa
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To: blinachka

How about airport kiosks "rent a lighter". LOL


101 posted on 12/08/2004 3:31:14 PM PST by oldtimer
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To: Bluegrass Conservative
However, I don't want the possibility of a fire on a plane.

Then you must be in favor of banning all electronics, batteries, in-flight movies, instruments and fuel.
Fires on planes are generally electrical and not intentionally started. In fact I have never heard of one that was started by a passenger and neither has my son in his 17 years as an airline mechanic. (Not including 7 years as a mechanic in the Air Force)

102 posted on 12/08/2004 3:32:26 PM PST by jimthewiz (An armed society is a polite society)
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To: Betty Jane
Now, if I can't smoke from 6:00 in the mornig until 7:00 at night when my connecting flight finally lands, I may become a teensy bit irritated.

Try not smoking from 5pm one day until 1800 the next. Dallas to Moscow was BRUTAL.

103 posted on 12/08/2004 3:32:53 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Truth, Justice and the Texan Way)
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To: Eaker

ping


104 posted on 12/08/2004 3:33:06 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Bluegrass Conservative

You actually check luggage?

I NEVER check in any luggage. Everything I need for a three day business flight can fit in a carry-on bag. And probably 90% of the business flyers out there never check any luggage, so I suspect this is going to bee a big issue.


105 posted on 12/08/2004 3:36:35 PM PST by RatSlayer
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To: Bluegrass Conservative
Prior to 9-11, please cite some examples of terrorist a**holes flying aircraft into large buildings . . .

Hijacking has been around almost as long as commercial flight. Hijacking has always been accompanied by the threat of death to passengers with or without the destruction of the aircraft. The non-confrontation model for dealing with hijackers assumed that the hijacker wanted the plane and passengers for collateral, as opposed to a missile. The model failed when the premise failed.

My point is that eliminating butane lighters, while allowing matches or other means of producing fires, which are almost limitless, is ineffective, feel-good nanny-state bs. Using your logic, shouldn't we actually eliminate large buildings, not butane lighters.

Excerpt from: http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~surette/hijacking.html
Link

Hijacking frequencies and dates given below are based on Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) documents (1983)-' other references cited give detailed descriptions of specific incidents. Additional information on the history of aircraft hijacking can be found in scholarly papers (e.g., Aggarwala 197 1; Evans 1969; McWhinney 1.97 1; Turner 1969) and the popular press (Arey 1972; Hubbard 1971; Phillips 1973; Whelton 1972).

Aircraft hijackings prior to the late 1950s bear little relation to the later incidents in the United States.' However, the incidents that began occurring in the late 1950s are relevant. From late 1958 through 1969, aircraft hijacking was predominantly a phenomenon of the Western Hemisphere, centered on Cuba, and many of the hijackings of U.S. planes to Cuba are best understood in that larger context. Of the 177 worldwide hijacking attempts between 1958 and 1969, 80% originated in the Western Hemisphere and 77% either originated in Cuba or were efforts to divert planes to Cuba. ....
106 posted on 12/08/2004 3:36:58 PM PST by NonLinear ("If not instantaneous, then extrordinarily fast" - Galileo re. speed of light. circa 1600)
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To: Tumbleweed_Connection

"My dad says butane's a bastard gas."


107 posted on 12/08/2004 3:39:41 PM PST by steveo (Member: Fathers Against Rude Television)
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To: wku man
Screw the trivial banning of this and that!

The single most effective way to protect our national security is tightening our borders...It's not even on the radar screen in our White House. It stuns me and p!sses me off!

This is an issue the Democrats are going to use in their behalf in the next election...just wait and see.

108 posted on 12/08/2004 3:40:59 PM PST by reagankid
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To: Redbob

RE: "Next items to be banned:
Shoe laces.

Then ballpoint pens.

Then leather belts.

Then paper-clips."

Mechanical Pencils (actually pencils in general I guess)

Socks full of loose change (which is my personal favorite jailhouse weapon)


109 posted on 12/08/2004 3:41:44 PM PST by RatSlayer
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To: Bluegrass Conservative

For many a lighter is a personal item.

For smokers they just don't smoke on the airplane but they have the cigarets for the smoking lounges or areas.

(this is a feeeel good legislation. You can BUY nail cutters once you get through security)


110 posted on 12/08/2004 3:43:18 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: Bluegrass Conservative
And your need for a cigarette that quickly is worth endangering the lives of everyone on the plane?

OH, PLEASE!

Back off the hyperbole and hysteria.

111 posted on 12/08/2004 3:44:00 PM PST by zoyd (Hi, I'm with the government. We're going to make you like your neighbor.)
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To: Bluegrass Conservative
You wouldn't have a problem doing that with your lighter, would you? I mean, what possible need could you have for one during the flight?

Lighters have been forbidden from checked baggage for a long time, even before 9/11. The only way to transport a butane lighter to one's destination was either to ship it UPS, paying appropriate hazmat charges, or carry it on one's person.

112 posted on 12/08/2004 3:44:16 PM PST by supercat (If Kerry becomes President, nothing bad will happen for which he won't have an excuse.)
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To: AdamSelene235

LOL. Looks like we have a boyscout in the forum.

Personally, I always prefered a road flare for emergency firestarting (if you can't get it to burn with a flare, its definately too wet to burn)!

I wonder if they've banned road flares in carryon?


113 posted on 12/08/2004 3:48:10 PM PST by RatSlayer
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To: RatSlayer
Hi RatSlayer-

"...Everything I need for a three day business flight can fit in a carry-on bag..."



You are absolutely correct. When traveling domestically on business, I similarly pack EVERYTHING that I'll need in a rollaway that fits in the overhead bin. Checked luggage marks you either as a business-travel amateur or someone on an extended vacation. True road warriors don't check their luggage...it just leads to hassles and delays.

Assorted inane restrictions have made civilized life more unpleasant on arrival. It used to be nice to have a razor-sharp folding knife so I could cut apples at my hotel room, open plastic packaging, and uncork bottles of wine. As a lifelong non-smoker, a small lighter is handy for candles and burning threads from your garments. We need to concentrate on finding terrorists not things.

~ Blue Jays ~

114 posted on 12/08/2004 3:51:54 PM PST by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: Centurion2000

I did Phoenix to Moscow (with stops in Dallas and Heathrow).

But I was in first class from Dallas to Heathrow and slept like a baby on that leg, so it wasn't too bad.


115 posted on 12/08/2004 3:53:13 PM PST by RatSlayer
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To: abner

Probably true. However, I'm convinced that smokers will never understand why non-smokers have a problem being around them at times too.


116 posted on 12/08/2004 3:55:24 PM PST by Bluegrass Conservative
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To: RatSlayer

Either take a small bag full of lighters to check or just purchase a cheap bic when you arrive at your destination then.


117 posted on 12/08/2004 3:56:39 PM PST by Bluegrass Conservative
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To: NonLinear

Hijacking is one thing, using the planes as missiles to fly into skyscrapers is another.


118 posted on 12/08/2004 3:57:18 PM PST by Bluegrass Conservative
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To: Prime Choice

Holy smokes, is that a real pic of the Concord that crashed in France 5 -6 years ago?


119 posted on 12/08/2004 3:57:26 PM PST by Lockbar (March toward the sound of the guns.)
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To: longtermmemmory

I understand it's a personal item. I have some pocketknives that are very sentimental to me too. I don't take them on planes though.


120 posted on 12/08/2004 3:58:01 PM PST by Bluegrass Conservative
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