KIEV: HANDOVER OF POWER

Sky News ^ | November 23, 2004

[kupia_kummi]

A peaceful handover of power has reportedly been agreed in the Ukraine after protesters clashed with anti-riot police outside the president's headquarters.  

Tensions in the capital Kiev reached breaking point as tens of thousands of demonstrators surrounded the HQ.

They had been called on to march by opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko.  

He and his supporters believed the presidential election, which took place at the weekend, was rigged.  

According to the poll results, Kremlin-backed Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych won the presidency.  

But after calls from outgoing president Leonid Kuchma for talks between the two sides, Mr Yanukovych stepped aside.  

Mr Yushchenko will now become president, it has been reported.  

The turmoil in the Ukraine followed a day of claims and counter-claims about the disputed presidential election, which has been condemned internationally as not being "free or fair".

[hosepipe]

[ Yes... Democracy has always been mob rule.... Come on now...there's a difference between majority rule and mob rule. ]

Not only... is any democracy MOB rule... so is Oligarchy... and Plutarchy... and Sharia Law(Islam) by the way... Socialism is just a symptom of democracy but democracy is the disease... Majority rule sounds good to the naieve like communism and socialism does... and might even work if ANY democracy had any "rights".. NO democracy that ever existed had ANY RIGHTS, merely privledges granted by their government.. In the U.S. we have "RIGHTS" granted by GOD... The government has nothing at all to do with them, thats why they are inalienable..

Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx

Democracy is indispensable to socialism. The goal of socialism is communism. V.I. Lenin

The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.- Karl Marx

We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.~Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

[bgarid]

>I think you do not understand what it is to live in post-communist country where communist leaders still in power.

I am very sorry, but this has to be the funniest sentence I've read on Freerepublic for some time...
>You can't commit fraud it will be all over 4 goverment control channels.

Yanukovich has no control over western Ukraine. He doesn't control the capital city of Kiev. He doesn't even control much of eastern Ukraine.
He controls only Donetsk and Luhansk, where people already support Yanukovich.
As for the government, it is pretty much split with president Kuchma supporting Yanukovich, but most of government officials both in Kiev and western regions supporting Yushchenko.
This is pretty much evident from the election results since the OFFICIAL Central Election Committee reported 93% vote for Yushenko in Lvov.
So this is NOT a fight between "Communist government" and "Democratic oppposition". It is a strugle between two factions of the Ukrainian government personified by figures of Victor Yushchenko, former Kuchma's Prime Minister and Victor Yanukovich, present Kuchma's Prime Minister...

And finally, let's give you one concrete example of Yushenko's fraud. The official Central Elections Committee reported that voter turnout in Lvov region in western Ukraine was 81,97 per cent and that the people there overwhelmingly voted for Victor Yushchenko.

Well, these figures are simply impossible, because half of population of the improverished western Ukraine and Lvov in particular are out of the country, working as gastarbeiters in Spain, Portugal or Moscow. There is no way there could be 80% turnout in Lvov, it's physically impossible. It's a blatant fraud which added to Yuschenko probably a million false votes in western Ukraine alone.

[ohioWfan]

Prayers for the many, strong, dedicated Christians in Ukraine, and their struggle for freedom!

[ohioWfan]

Thanks for all the info, ukie.

There is a warm place in my heart for the wonderful people of Ukraine, and I wish them well.

[evad]

heh heh..ok HP.

Just for grins then, was what happened a good thing or a bad thing..or does anything even matter?

[redgolum]

Ok, I will bite.

Can I get the links?

[bgarid]

How about this Christian?

Viktor Yanukovich, Prime Minister of Ukraine and candidate to the presidential post, stands in front of icons in an Orthodox church in Kiev two days before the elections.(AFP/Sergei Supinski)

[ohioWfan]

Politicians feign faith everywhere, bgarid. Nothing new there......... remember xlinton?

I was referring to the very active, resilient Church of Jesus Christ in Ukraine, believers whose faith sustained them over decades of oppression.........and my prayers are with them.

[hosepipe]

[ Just for grins then, was what happened a good thing or a bad thing..or does anything even matter? ]

Just for grins.. In a democracy WHICH mob is in power is irrelevant.. The system is set up for a mob or consortium of mobs to run things.. A system run by mobsters that are all mobbed up.. What they NEED is a different system.. like the one America USED to have.. Currently democracy or communism are just two sides of the same coin..

Socialism "IS" slavery.. by government.. and the government are people.. and the people are the political class(MOB)..

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.-- C. S. Lewis

[bgarid]

>Politicians feign faith everywhere

True, but Yanukovich's deep connections to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church are well known. Even his political enemies acknowledge this. In fact, just yesterday I read anti-Yanukovich atricle which referred to Yanukovich's supporters as a "clique of clerics and gangsters"...

[Agog]

Yanukovitch is mainly a gangster. May I suggest you check out the following link showing his rap sheet:

http://www.ukrpravda.com/archive/2004/november/19/7.shtml

[bgarid]

Interesting piece of propaganda, this http://www.ukrpravda.com/archive/2004/october/15/3.shtml
No new facts about Yanukovich's convictions, just dark hints and baseless allegations.
I am not convinced.
Though hardly this is surprising, given the source's name - "Ukrainska Pravda"...

[evad]

>>Just for grins.. In a democracy WHICH mob is in power is irrelevant..<<

So I guess since a MOB IS in control and a MOB WAS in control, both sides must be a MOB it doesn't matter which side won.

Why bother??.. or do you have any positive suggestion for what should happen?
Just curious.

[evad]

oops..I din't read your message too well. Got all fixated on the MOB thing.

I see you are saying what they need is a system like the one we USED to have.

Probably true but do you see any way they can get there?

[Windsong]

"According to the poll results.."

Sorry..but polls don't win elections. Votes do.

Fruitcakes. The whole lot of em.

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks for that factoid. Very interesting.

[Right in Wisconsin]

This does not pass the smell test to me.