Posted on 11/13/2004 6:05:41 AM PST by cpforlife.org
PRO-LIFE WARNING TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY
We believe that abortion is infanticide, and that a holocaust of infants is taking place. We do not believe that there is any other issue on Earth that compares with abortion in moral import. And therefore, there is no policy or combination of policies you Republicans can offer, including perfect tax policies, tort reform, and every other thing that is near and dear to Republican hearts, that matters a damn if abortion is overlooked and allowed to slide by.
We know that this issue has to be settled in the Supreme Court, nowhere else. And we know that the opportunity to put new justices on the court comes once in a decade, maybe, and that the current opportunity to alter the complexion of the court is not going to come again for a generation. Therefore, the real possibility exists that abortion can finally be seriously curtailed, soon, by the Supreme Court changing Roe v. Wade or eliminating it...IF, and ONLY IF, we can get pro-life judges on that court.
To do that, we have trusted the Republicans for years. We just came out and voted for you again this time, in unprecedented numbers, because we are not stupid and we know what is at stake. Not just evangelicals either. The religious CATHOLIC vote went Republican in 2004, and they didn't do it because of trade policy or even gay marriage. Their issue is abortion.
And the overriding issue is abortion.
So, if the Republicans allow Senator Specter to get the Chair of the Judiciary Committee and he blocks pro-life nominees, or if the Republicans do not use the nuclear option to override Democrat filibusters of pro-life nominees, THIS TIME there is no place for Republicans to hide. WE KNOW that you have the power, now, because WE just voted to give it to you. We understand that you can block Specter. And we understand the nuclear option.
And therefore, we most certainly will understand that if you allow the pro-life judges to be blocked, that it will be your political CHOICE to have done so. You CAN put pro-life judges on the bench, if you expend a lot of political capital. This will offend some people - a lot of people. And that is the price you HAVE to pay to get our votes next time. You have to be willing to bet the whole house to end infanticide.
If not, we will not vote for you. We won't go running to vote for the Democrats: they're pro-abortion. We won't go out and form a third party: we're not stupid and know that won't work. We'll just stay home, just like we did in 2000. Except that in 2000 it was out of frustration and neglect, and the lack of belief that anything will change. There was no organized campaign to keep the pro-life vote home in 2000.
This time, it's different. We understand the system, and we know that you have the power. And we demand that you use the power straight down the line to fill the high court and the appellate courts with judges who will protect the lives of babies. Period. This is not negotiable. At all. This is why we voted for you. You have nothing with which to bargain with us, and if you screw us, we will stay organized and we will stay home purposely to destroy the Republican party. Because if you do not protect the babies when you have the power to do it, you are no better than the Democrats...and worse, you will have lied to us.
This means, in effect, that all of those things YOU care most about: taxation, immigration, trade and business policy, deregulation - all of those core issues that come as an economic package, are held hostage to our issue: babies. If you will not protect the babies, we will stay home and let the Democrats destroy everything that YOU believe in.
This is called "Chicken". It is called a "Mexican Standoff". And since we are fired up by the certitude that we are doing God's work in defending babies, we cannot be bought, and you cannot win so much as an election for dog catcher in this country without us.
Therefore, the solution is simple and obvious: give us what we voted for you to do. Give us pro-life judges. Use all of your power to do it. Sweep Specter out of the way: is he worth losing all the rest of your agenda? - because we really will stay home and throw the country to the Democrats if you're no better than they are on abortion, just to punish YOU for having betrayed us. When the filibusters come, and they will come, use the nuclear option to override them. That will poison the Senate, yes. So what? We are talking about babies here. And with our votes, militantly mobilized because we are winning, alongside of yours, in 2006 and 2008 and beyond, even if the Senate is poisoned, you will be able to replace it with a more Republican one.
That there is even a debate going on as to what to do with Specter is alarming, but we have had our hearts broken before, so we'll sit and pray and trust President Bush and Senator Frist and the Republicans to do the right thing.
Screw us, though, and we will turn on you and your whole agenda will go down the drain with the blood of the babies you wouldn't put your power on the line to save.
The easy solution, the win-win solution, is to BE as pro-life as you campaigned as being. Just do it.
I apologize for the length of this post. But it needed to be said. The Republicans do not seem to get it. They need to understand that we are more committed to saving babies than we are to the fortunes of the Republican Party. That Specter is still in play demonstrates that too many of them do not take this seriously.
Rather than test us, what you guys should do is simply cave, now, and give us what we want. Do that, and you wont hear from us again - there will be no creeping theocracy in America - because this is about the only religious issue that Catholics and Orthodox and Evangelicals AGREE on.
"I was confirmed Catholic, but soon realized that I didn't know it all. I'm agnostic, and you're getting personally offensive."
How is a civil inquiry "getting personally offensive"?
The problem is, staying home does not help the cause either. That is just insuring that democrats will win and partial birth abortion will be the norm again. Getting Roe V Wade reversed will take a miracle, but I do believe in them. However, threatening to not vote seems the wrong method to me.
I was going to add that to my response, but you did it for me. This war must be won, and I don't know if people get this. Thanks.
"It is between her, her aborted foetus, and God. It is no one elses duty or responsibility."
So abortion is unique in that society has NO say? Hey, and what about the father, no say, no rights?
I think he should lead a movement to pass a Human Life Amendment. He'd be a natural. ;-)
Yes, I would say that was a fair representation of my views, otherwise I would have made an objection.
Do you always debate people by telling lies about them, or is it just Catholic posters you abuse?
580 posted on 11/13/2004 4:04:04 PM EST by narses (The fight to protect the unborn is THE civil rights battle of the 21st century. + Vivo Christo Rey!)To: tpaine"I was confirmed Catholic, but soon realized that I didn't know it all. I'm agnostic, and you're getting personally offensive."
How is a civil inquiry "getting personally offensive"?
I guess whether or not something is an insult depends on whose ox is getting gored?
Unsycophant agrees:
It's not a government issues...it's not a legal issue....it's a sanctity of life issue that has to be decided by the individual.
Society doesn't live with the shame of legal abortion--the individual lives with the choice of having an abortion at all. Denying women the right to choose, won't prevent them from choosing to have abortions.
Well said.
The RRs can win the argument against, without making abortions illegal. They just don't seem to understand that.
Exactly. they really don't want to 'understand', they want ~control~. Control of society is the agenda, not just abortion.
The faux-power the RR (and faux rr) thinks it has suddenly gained, is absurd. The numbers show that they did not contribute any more to GW's reelection this time, than they did last time. I suspect they never did help my side. They've been thorns in my side's side, for years. This is a perfect example of how.
ps: Hi! -- unsycophant
Where ya been, kiddo? Good to see you active again..
Sorry to burst your bubble. Everyone knows my position on just above every issue. Nobody knows or should care what my religion is. I don't want to know yours.
I would oppose, with all my energy, any group who would invoke religion as an argument, or even as part of any argument; Exactly as I oppose the murdering SMs* now.
*SM© = Sweet Muslims
I don't believe we need or should appoint pro-life judges to the Supreme Court. All we have to do is appoint judges who are strict constructionists and they will throw out Roe V. Wade. Abortion is not a constitutional issue and needs to go back to the States where we pro lifers can win the battle and end this once and for all. If the Supreme court outlaws abortion it will continue the battle for years to come and unborn babies will once again be at the mercy of future Supreme Courts. If we want to make this a federal issue we need to amend the constitution.
He probably will....the question is, will he have any more success at that than he does at getting elected?
He could probably raise a bunch of money for the cause, however....
My opinions are "reprehensible", my questions "offensive" but telling lies about me, well that seems to be fine. I expect that from liberals, it is shocking to see from self-professed conservatives.
No problem. You are the one wants decide for all the interpretation of God's will.. I do not want to force on you the laws I feel are appropriate through government force. You seem to want God's will to be legislated through our republic's force of arms.
I understand your situation. You feel if you legislate as closely to the biblical scripture as possible God's reign on earth will be closer to existance.
Besides the obvious argument regarding ancient biblical law and its implications for modern day individuals, the larger impasse being how the God's word is intrepreted and enforced. I am pretty damn sure most folk won't like what you've come up with. If you want rioting in the streets this is probably the best way to go about it.
Well, I guess the answer to that is that you don't necessarily want to deal with abortion ahead of the War on Terrorism, but that the War on Terrorism shouldn't prevent anyone from dealing with abortion before they take up any further tax issues or Social Security reform. LOL.
Keep giving them hell, EV!! ;-)
Who decides what is right and wrong for you besides yourself? Does God determine everything you do or do you have a free will to make your own decisions upon this earth? The answer to the 2nd question gives you the answer to the first.
If God does determine everything then no one can really commit sin or be pious. If we do have free will, why are you trying to impose what you feel is God's will on the rest of us, when we feel God's will is something you cannot determine for us.
Once again its all in the translation, and what I'm reading in the new testament doesn't talk about using caesar's law for God's will!
How could I lie about you, when you refuse to stake out a position on abortion. The only thing I have to go on is your consistent support of pro-choice "Republicans"...
Abortion is murder, pure and simple. It ought to be illegal, except under certain circumstances.
I cannot believe we trash Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc. etc. as mass murderers when, since Roe v. Wade, approximately 50 million innocent human beings have been slaughtered! And that is just in the USA!
See post 386 and prior exchanges. It appeared from the context he was referring to fetal stem cell research, as there is no moral issue involved in adult stem cell or umbilical cord stem cell treatments. But if he (or anyone) finds the question offensive, rest assured I find the fact that babies are killed for such research even more offensive.
Your mother made the correct moral choice.
"You don't seem to have a very reasoned respect for Life in general though.. "
Rest assured, I do. It is congruent with that of the Church. That YOU have trouble with it, just as you have trouble understanding abortion = evil bothers me not at all.
Now, how about YOU answering the questions I posed to you?
Now, WHEN is abortion NOT evil (in your mind and,if you have a theological or philosophical basis for your claim, can you cite them please)?
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