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Universe's 6,000th birthday ...
Guardian ^ | 22 October 2004 | Radford, Tim

Posted on 10/22/2004 7:22:56 AM PDT by Publius Valerius

Universe's 6,000th birthday ...

Tim Radford Friday October 22, 2004 The Guardian

Britain's geologists are about to celebrate the fact that the universe is exactly 6,000 years old.

At 6pm tonight at the Geological Society of London, scientists will raise their glasses to James Ussher, Archbishop of Armagh (below), who in 1650 used the chronology of the Bible to calculate the precise date and moment of creation.

Working from the book of Genesis, and risking some speculation on the Hebrew calendar, he calculated that it began at 6pm on Saturday October 22, 4004 BC.

Actually, he put the date at October 23, and then pedantically realised that time must have begun the night before, because the Bible said that "the evening and the morning were the first day."

The geologists selected the anniversary for a day-long conference on some of the fakes, frauds and hoaxes that have plagued geological and palaeontological research for centuries. "It's not that we think Archbishop Ussher's date was a fraud," said Ted Nield, the society's communications officer. "It's just that it was spectacularly wrong."

Dr Nield conceded, too, that in toasting the archbishop's calculations the geologists were committing another error. More than 6,000 years have passed since 4004 BC. The symmetry is only apparent. The date is a mere numerological reflection. The real anniversary passed unnoticed, in 1997.


TOPICS: Extended News; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: creation; creationism; genesis; origins; universe
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To: Leapfrog

121 posted on 10/22/2004 11:06:37 AM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: All
Radiometric Dating, A Christian Perspective
122 posted on 10/22/2004 11:07:07 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Revolting cat!

Where's the date, year, and moon phase clock?


123 posted on 10/22/2004 11:08:13 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Revolting cat!

Hahaa.

Unnngh!


124 posted on 10/22/2004 11:10:19 AM PDT by Michael Goldsberry (Which part of "Don't Mess With Texas" didn't you get?)
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To: longshadow

Festival of moratorium-imposed restraint.


125 posted on 10/22/2004 11:12:28 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: Publius Valerius

Woo-Hoo!! 6,000 years old!

Funny, the Earth doesn't look a day over 2 or 3 thousand.


126 posted on 10/22/2004 11:13:44 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Spirit of '76 bttt!)
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To: RadioAstronomer

Excellent post. Thanks.


127 posted on 10/22/2004 11:14:17 AM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
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To: Christian Conservative
There is no magical 1 Day equals 1,000 Years in the Bible. There is a passage that says to God 1,000 years is as a day, but it also a day is as 1,000 years. It simply means that because God is an infinite being...

It means both. In Genesis the Bible says "In the day ye eat thereof...", yet Adam lived more than 800 years after. It significant then that several Patriarchs lived more than 900 years but none lived 1000. Your mistake is to consider the passage 2Pet.3:8 in isolation. See also Ps.90:4.
128 posted on 10/22/2004 11:17:03 AM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: RadioAstronomer
"[E]volution is one of the strongest and most useful scientific theories we have."

As one who always wants to learn, can you explain to me in what ways that the TOE is more "useful" than say, Newton's Laws or Relativity?
129 posted on 10/22/2004 11:32:44 AM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

> can you explain to me in what ways that the TOE is more "useful" than say, Newton's Laws or Relativity?

Well... throughout the history of mankind, the knowledge of both newtonian and reletivistic physics ahve been pretty irrelevant to the lives of the vast majority of people. But on the other hand evolution and related biological phenomena have been right there in front of us.


130 posted on 10/22/2004 11:56:19 AM PDT by orionblamblam
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

If it means both equally and literally, then any date or time frame becomes meaningless. Ps. 90:2 says " Before the mountains were born or You gave birth to the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God." 90:4-6 says "For a thousand years in Your sight are like yesterday when it passes by, or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew. In the morning it flourishes and sprouts anew; Toward evening it fades and withers away."

You are correct that this is an OT parallel of 2Peter 3. However it is the same concept that I outlined for 2Peter 3. We are reminded of our insignificance when placed in perspective next to God. He is infinite and is not bound by time. It means what in God's perspective what we see as a long time, i.e. 1000 years, is to him the same as we view yesterday. It is a picture of the Nature of God who is infinite, by comparing Him to something we, who are finite, can understand. As far as I know every culture uses revolution of the earth around the sun as the measure of its calender year. There are adjustments based on the division of the months or weeks because of the degredation of the orbit and rotation of the earth, but for the most part years are tracked the same way, so any culture would have limited understanding of the way God views our reality.
The reason for telling us this is both passages is to assure us that God remembers the sins of the wicked. They will be punished in His time. That is why God said "Vengeance is mine, I will repay." God is not constrained by time or space as we are, and He will be perfectly just in His judment as we cannot be.


131 posted on 10/22/2004 11:59:30 AM PDT by Christian Conservative
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To: Doctor Stochastic

You just did away with the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics. Please answer the question without being a smartass.


132 posted on 10/22/2004 12:05:31 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter (Texas Songwriter)
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To: bondserv
The pottery wheel was spinning a lot faster than the one today.

Interestingly, cosmological science has an analogous problem. It is called "inflation", a period 10-35sec after the big bang when the universe expanded faster than light.

http://home.uchicago.edu/~jmdavis1/astro.html
133 posted on 10/22/2004 12:08:29 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: Christian Conservative

You've repeated yourself, but you have not addressed Gen.2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." But Adam lived more than 800 years after to 930. Did God lie?


134 posted on 10/22/2004 12:16:04 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide
The jewish sabbath runs from Friday night to 6pm Saturday.

Right you are. Well, maybe Ussher should have said, "6:00.01 pm., on Saturday. But I'm still confused as to how the universe could have begun 6 (or 7) days after it was started.

Cordially,

135 posted on 10/22/2004 12:17:21 PM PDT by Diamond
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To: Texas Songwriter

I did answer the question. However your response shows that you are not serious about wanting an answer. Vi=On


136 posted on 10/22/2004 12:20:39 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: AMHN

How about a Supreme Particle or Virtual Being??


8^)


137 posted on 10/22/2004 12:27:25 PM PDT by The SISU kid (I'm the swizzle stick in the cocktail of life)
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To: orionblamblam
But on the other hand evolution and related biological phenomena have been right there in front of us.

Clever use of "and." No one has ever seen evolution happen. It makes no predictions. It has not been converted into any technology. When you say "biological phenomena have been right there in front of us", I can respond that gravity has always been right there in front of us. But the theories have not and the question was on the usefulness of a theory whose effects have never been directly observed and which has not put anything into anyone's living room. It seems to me that its main usefulness has been as a battering ram against the Bible. But I may be wrong.
138 posted on 10/22/2004 12:27:50 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

If matter nor energy can not be created nor destroyed from when did it come. You may say it always was and therefore you violate the 1st law of thermodynamics. If it always existed and the 2nd law is a scientific truth (and it is) then each particle, atom ,subatomic particle would be washed out into a cosmic ocean of nothingness, approaching absolute zero. Its back to the void. The is a Buddist concept. It is not scientific (excepting Christian Science which says all is mind. If so hit one of them on the back of the head and see if they say ouch.) So once again I ask you to address my question from a scientific point not as as Kerryesque one liner. I want you to instruct me.


139 posted on 10/22/2004 12:32:14 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter (Texas Songwriter)
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To: Diamond
But I'm still confused as to how the universe could have begun 6 (or 7) days after it was started.

I'm confused about how you are distinguishing the words "begun" and "started" :-/
140 posted on 10/22/2004 12:32:50 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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