PIERCE TELLS REPORTER CBS GAVE HIM 'LOTS MORE DOCUMENTS'

Kerry Spot ^ | Sep 17, 2004 | Jim Geraghty

[Mike Fieschko]

Just exchanged emails with Garry Moon, columnist for the Athens, Ga. Banner-Herald. He shared a stunning bit of news with me, and said he wanted Kerry Spot readers to know, since he doesn’t know when his column is going to run in the Banner-Herald. Moon managed to contact James J. Pierce, the fourth expert that CBS has cited as one of its experts verifying its documents.

(I asked “who is James Pierce?” yesterday. In light of Moon’s news, maybe I was a little harsh on the guy.)

Moon writes:

I called Pierce at about 7:30 p.m. Thursday night. I told him I was with the Athens Banner-Herald newspaper, doing a piece about the Killian memos. He asked me how I got his home phone number, and I told him. I thought he might hang up, but he stayed on the line... maybe because I was upfront with him and not aggressive in asking him questions. He said he couldn't give me many details about his analysis of the documents that CBS gave him because he was still “in the middle of studying them“. More on that to come...

[snip]

- The key point: Pierce seemed upset that CBS is using his ‘Professional Opinion’ memo of 9/14 to prop up their defense about the Killian memos being authentic. Pierce said “CBS is wrong, CBS is wrong” to portray it that way, saying it twice for emphasis. He said that his PO memo was only a preliminary judgment, “not a final conclusion” on all the documents.

- The (for me) stunner: Pierce said that the reason he hadn't rendered a final conclusion yet was that he was only “midway through his analysis” of all the documents - speaking as though there were many docs. CBS gave you other documents besides the four that 60 Minutes used in the story? “Lots more documents” were his exact words.

So it seems like CBS News is - again - misrepresenting what their own experts have told them about the Killian documents. Indeed, given that “lots of documents” are involved, who knows whether the documents that he referred to in his PO actually concerned the four that 60 Minutes used in the story

First thought: Good job, Garry.

Second thought: Just what the heck are these other documents that CBS gave him? Was CBS planning a second follow-up story, using more documents from their source?

What else is CBS not telling us?

[GoLightly]

FOIA only covers government entities.

[JustaCowgirl]

Hear, hear. One always has to consider the alternative.

I can hardly conceive of anything I could find out about George Bush from 35 years ago that would make me vote for John Kerry. Maybe that W was a serial killer. Well, maybe not even that.

[DannyTN]

They probably planned to dribble out new forgeries every week. But Buckhead shut them down.

[BillF]

Many seem to be assuming that the "lots more documents" have yet to be released.

It's possible that some are, as yet unreleased documents, but I think many of the documents may be the actual documents about Bush from DOD.

Maybe SeeBS gave Pierce the six forged documents (4 released by CBS and 2 additional later released by USA Today) and a large batch of known authentic documents released by the Pentagon.

My theory is that Pierce was to compare the two types of documents for consistancy.

Two possibilities under this theory.

(1) Pierce never completed a detailed comparison of Kinko documents to the batch of real documents. CBS jumped the gun citing him as an authenticator when he had not authenticated the Kinko documents. (This possibility is consistant with the story "Pierce said that the reason he hadn't rendered a final conclusion yet was that he was only “midway through his analysis” of all the documents.")

OR

(2) Pierce gave a final OK to CBS on the documents, but he is trying to avoid having his professional reputation dragged down with CBS' and Rather's reputations. This scenario seems unlikely to me, but CBS will probably try to pin Pierce as one of the fall guys.

[okie01]

As an aside, I would like to know WHY WE JUST CAN'T HAVE A NORMAL ELECTION?

Because, as the American political system has developed, we no longer have a "loyal opposition". Instead, we have a domestic enemy, bound to destroy us.

Under the circumstances, I would prefer that we destroy them.

[Just mythoughts]

"As an aside, I would like to know WHY WE JUST CAN'T HAVE A NORMAL ELECTION? I am sick of dealing with people who plot, connive, and lie."


We are not dealing with normal people. We are dealing with people who see every thing that the Clintons established, built (like those "walls") facing the reality that with another 4 years of President Bush they will be at ground zero.

This is not a national election this is an election that will determine if we continue to fight this war that this bunch allowed, ignored, and helped to prosper. We have not seen anything yet out of this bunch and they are not going away.

[dalebert]

THey could have include a few legit old docs just to get him to say something was authentic.

[Rocky]

So CBS is setting a trap? Looks to me like they got caught in their own trap.

The irony, the irony.

[occutegirl]

How many other stories CBS has made up?

[okie01]

It's possible that some are, as yet unreleased documents, but I think many of the documents may be the actual documents about Bush from DOD.

Why would they want to authenticate documents released by the DOD? And how would a document examiner be equipped to do so? Unless he is a specialist in that particular type of document, he wouldn't be in a position to authenticate the style and jargon (the form and printing system would, of course, be authentic as could be).

Instead, I wonder if the additional documents are handwritten. Matley's specialty was handwriting analysis, not document authentication. What is Pierce's expertise?

Because, at this point, has not the ground been prepared to introduce handwritten documents? Killian's family and associates have all established that he did not type. Hodges was left with the "impression" that they were asking him about handwritten documents.

What if, for his next act, Rather introduces six handwritten documents that are otherwise textually identical to the Word docs? And they are attested to as being in Killian's handwriting?

It's a long shot. But it should be recognized as a possibility.

[TruthWillWin]

The weather channel was #1?

Could that be because of Ivan?

[okie01]

Ping to #50.

[okie01]

Thread of interest, relative to what your DC source was speculating.

In this connection, #50 may be of interest.

[Mike Fieschko]

What if, for his next act, Rather introduces six handwritten documents that are otherwise textually identical to the Word docs? And they are attested to as being in Killian's handwriting?

Then why use typed / word processed docs on your show in the first place?

Why would you save the handwritten docs, when they would have even greater weight than docs which weren't handwritten?

[okie01]

Then why use typed / word processed docs on your show in the first place?

As has been speculated, to fish for a denial. Thus, making the affair more than it really is.

If the White House denied the typewritten documents, then they sprung the handwritten documents, CBS and the Dems would have grounds for claiming that Bush was not only a slacker, but caught in a lie, as well.

Presumably, the handwritten documents would also reflect and correct the errors present in the Word docs -- such as GWB's Longmont address, the date of Col. Staudt's retirement, Army terminology, etc.

It's all too clever by half, I agree. But we're dealing with some devious and diseased minds...

[BillF]

Why would they want to authenticate documents released by the DOD? And how would a document examiner be equipped to do so?

The DOD real documents would be used for comparison purposes, not to validate them. We start with the idea that the DOD documents are valid.

If one wanted to analyze a test batch of documents for validity, one technique is to compare them to a control batch of documents known to be authentic. Compare font, paper size, and other properties.

Consistencies between the test batch documents and the control batch documents reinforce the likelihood that test batch documents are authentic. Inconsistencies, especially significant or not explainable inconsistencies, reinforce the likelihood that the test batch documents are fakes.

Like a handwriting expert comparing a questionable signature to a known valid signature, one could compare the Kinko batch of documents to the authentic DOD documents.

[mattdono]

Interesting theory. Let me throw some ideas out...

First, one has to wonder if Rather and CBS already have too much "stink" on them that I'm not sure it would make a difference.

Second, if they have the handwritten documents it would only excerbate the obvious: that a source to SeeBS or someone at SeeBS went through extraordinary lengths to make these documents look authentic.

Third, if they have handwritten documents, the documents have to be verbatim matches to the forged documents to even consider the possibility of them being considered, at least, the authentic source of the information (orders, thoughts, CYA manuvers, whatever).

But, in the forged, word-processor written memos, there is notable content problems, in addition to the well-covered physical distinctions.

There is a very strong possiblity that Lt. Col. Killian didn't write anything like that, because...

1. that's not the way that he (Lt. Col. Killian) spoke or wrote, according to both the wife and son
2. the phrases used wouldn't have been in the documents because the phrasiology (is that a word? you know what I mean) is not that of an Air Force or Air National Guard officer
3. there are structural problems with the content, such as the "order to take a physical" coming from Killian when it would have come from the clinic commander (Killian was in operations); also, the presence of Staudt in a memo written 18 months after his retirement

So, even if they have handwritten documents and the documents are a "spot-on" match. There is still the content and structural issues about the documents.

Fourth, there is still the over-arching questions about the manner in which CBS has handled this...

• Not including commentary from the person/people who knew Lt. Col. Killian best: his wife and son (who also was a co-worker of LTC Killian and very familiar with the procedures in his dad's office)
• Excluding the concerns from several documents experts
• Ignoring the Col. Udell and Gen. (or Col?) Rufus Martin as a source to talk about 1) 1LT Bush and 2) Killian's assessment of 1LT Bush
• And, one of the biggest questions STILL not answered: WHO gave you these documents?

Finally, and quite relevant regarding the source of the documents, the Killian's have commented that there were no memos or personal notes that they collected when cleaning out his office. The memos were from his personal files and, if I am getting the story correct (based on what Lt. Col. Killian's son has said several times), the family collected any personal effects including paperwork. The official TANG reports that Killian had were handled by TANG personnel.

So, there are plenty of questions that have to be answered, just in case Danny Blather pulls out what he thinks is an "ace up his sleeve".

[Southack]

"Second thought: Just what the heck are these other documents that CBS gave him? Was CBS planning a second follow-up story, using more documents from their source? What else is CBS not telling us?"

The other documents are supposed to be about GWB's supposed "business scandals" prior to running for Governor of Texas. The whole "Bush missed Guard duty" scam was supposed to tack into "Bush was doing cocaine with fellow Guardsman Bath" which was supposed to be "supported" with innuendo of Bush doing Coke in Kitty Kelley's book which was supposed to lead up to a bigger accusation that Bush was involved in a business deal with a drug dealer who was doing land swaps or some such nonsense.

What?! You didn't think that the Dems were going to honestly campaign on their positions of being pro-abortion and pro-tax increases, did you?!

The AWB Has Expired - Gun Owners Have Won Again For All Americans!

[Eva]

I haven't heard that they have anything more accurate than what they have put out, just different details. The story from DU is that the other pilot that they have documents that indicate that the other pilot that was grounded near the same time as Bush, was grounded for using cocaine, so by guilt by association they are going to claim that Bush was using cocaine too (as per Kitty Kelley) and that he was afraid to take his physical. They have no proof of anything about the Bush physical so they are just fishing. In addition, I hear that the Guard didn't start drug testing until 1981.

[Tuscaloosa Goldfinch]

This probably has nothing to do with the CBS situation, but I went to DU yesterday just to see if they were depressed about the Kinkos stuff, and there was a thread about something big the Kerry camp has planned for October. Hmmm.