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Running list of issues from the Dan Rather interview of Killian's secretary, Marion Carr Knox
CBS News 60 Minutes ^ | 9/15/2004 | Mr_Mary_Jo_Kopechne

Posted on 09/15/2004 8:21:02 PM PDT by Mr_Mary_Jo_Kopechne

1) Rather mentions Ben Barnes in the opening and fails to disclose Barnes' ties to the Kerry campaign, misleading people who did not see the original piece

2) Rather made no mention of Amy Barnes' (Ben's daughter) statements that her father's statements on the 60 Minutes piece are politically motivated

3) In Rather's introduction, he says: "The woman who describes herself as Colonel Killian's right hand during much of the 1970s, Marianne Carr Knox, Colonel Killian's secretary, flew to NY this afternoon to tell us she believes the documents we obtained are not authentic. But, there is yet another confusing twist to this story. She told us, she believes what the documents actually say, is exactly as we reported." I find this last sentence to be a ludicrous, nonsensical statement. To paraphrase "Knox tells us that we accurately reported the falsified documents".

4) Neither Rather nor Knox disclosed Knox's political affiliation, nor was there mention of Knox's earlier statements to the press that Bush was "selected not elected" and unfit for the Presidency. Rather calls her a "credible voice".

5) Rather neglected to question Knox on the fact that Staudt was long gone by the date of the memo referring to him

6) Knox put no dates on any of the statements she made, and Rather asked her from no timeline

7) Knox mentions twice that other pilots who knew Bush was not fulfilling his obligation Knox - "his time there, it seemed the other fellows were, I am going to say this, sort of resentful for his attitude." Rather - "and what was his attitude" Knox - "well, that he really didn't have to go by the rules" Rather - "he didn't really have to go by the rules?" Knox - "it seemed that way to me"

and then later

Knox - "it was sort of gossip around there... about what he was getting away with" Rather - "what Lt Bush was getting away with, they were snickering about that?" Knox - "well the other officers, and I guess there was even a resentment"

Why have none of the pilots or officers come forward? Her memory is apparently good enough to know that the content of each memo is "correct", she should be able to recollect at least one person who observed Bush's alleged behavior, and Rather should have asked her for names.

(As an aside, the left apparently thinks that 250+ swift vets who served with Kerry but not on Kerry's boat are not credible, but hearsay of pilots that served with Bush delivered by a secretary with a known partisan bias is credible?)

8) Killian's wife and son say he kept notes on scraps of paper, but Knox claims that the memos are part of some personal journal. Rather fails to challenge this discrepancy. Also, Knox says it is more or less a personal journal. How many people have secretaries type their personal journals, aren't these usually hand written, especially by someone like Killian as he is described by his family?

9) Knox says "For instance, with the physical. Every officer knew, that at his birthday, he was supposed to have that flying physical." However, the first two memos discussing the orders for Bush to get the physical are dated 2 months before Bush's July birthday. Is it common practice for commanding officers to be this proactive? Rather does not ask.

10) Rather asks her if Bush got in on the basis of preference, her unchallenged response is "I am going to say that he did. I feel that he did." Rather asks if she feels this way because there were other politically connected people in the Guard at the time, and Knox answers yes. Rather fails to ask if her opinion is based on anything more tangible she might have read, seen, or heard.

Rather's last statement speaks volumes to his complete loss of journalistic integrity - "those who have criticized aspects of our story have never criticized the heart of it, the major thrust of our report, that George Bush received preferential treatment to get into the National Guard and once accepted, failed to satisfy the requirements of his service." This statement should be added to Journalism 101 textbooks in a chapter called "how not to disgrace yourself as a journalist". This claim fails to recognize that the "heart" of the story is built on a foundation of forged documents and a Democrat politician who is involved in the Kerry campaign, and therefore it is just as faulty as the foundation on which it is built. Addressing the story built on faulty evidence gives credence to that story, which it does not deserve. Or as the old saying goes "I will not dignify that with a response".


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bush; cbs; guard; knox; mariancarrknox; memo; national; rather; rathergate
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To: DJtex

All I heard from Teflon Dan (think Steely Dan in the book Naked Lunch) was arrogance at being challenged as a journalist, I saw no real sign of admission.


41 posted on 09/15/2004 9:11:46 PM PDT by Mr_Mary_Jo_Kopechne
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To: kingu
kingu: "2) She recalls Knox saying that Killian didn't believe that Bush was fit to be governor; wasn't Bush elected governor after both Killian and Knox were out of the TANG, and if so, how did they happen to have this conversation?"

I couldn't find any reference to that in the version on CBS' web site. Can anyone confirm such a mention (which I think would prove senility more than malfeasance on Knox' part.) If so, the fact that Killian died in 1984, while Bush was elected Governor on November 8, 1994, would prove one or the other. (Were they really talking about Bush for Governor by 1984? Also, I think Knox retired in 1979.)

42 posted on 09/15/2004 9:16:43 PM PDT by DWPittelli
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To: DWPittelli

I'm really hoping that my wife was wrong; something that obviously wrong would have had to be edited out of the interview, to do otherwise would be just plain stupid.


43 posted on 09/15/2004 9:18:46 PM PDT by kingu (Which would you bet on? Iraq and Afghanistan? Or Haiti and Kosovo?)
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To: Mr_Mary_Jo_Kopechne

Gary Killian said he had known Knox since he was 6 years old. He also said she was not his father's assistant, but she was a typist from the typing pool that all the officers used.

If find this exchange interesting:
Rather asks her if Bush got in on the basis of preference, her unchallenged response is "I am going to say that he did. I feel that he did." How in the world would she know the reasons he got into the Guard in Texas four years earlier? She was in Alabama at the end of his service.


44 posted on 09/15/2004 9:22:28 PM PDT by Savage Rider
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To: VisualizeSmallerGovernment
Name 5.

John Connally's son, both of Lloyd Bensen's sons, H.L. Hunt's grandson, and Bobby Sakowitz are the names that keep popping up, but that's just W's unit.

45 posted on 09/15/2004 9:39:08 PM PDT by uberPatriot
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To: kingu
2) She recalls Knox saying that Killian didn't believe that Bush was fit to be governor; wasn't Bush elected governor after both Killian and Knox were out of the TANG, and if so, how did they happen to have this conversation?

This one's interesting because Killian died in 1984. Bush became governor of Texas in 1994, ten years later. Hmmmmm...

46 posted on 09/15/2004 9:44:48 PM PDT by blake6900
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To: Mr_Mary_Jo_Kopechne

"DAN RATHER received preferential treatment to get into the National MEDIA and once accepted, failed to satisfy the requirements of his service."


47 posted on 09/15/2004 9:45:25 PM PDT by KingNo155
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To: Mr_Mary_Jo_Kopechne

Send it to Michael Dobbs of the Washington Post. I really believe he is being an investigative journalist on this issue. He has failed on the SWIFTboat vets issues, but he seems to be pushing this one. I'm not saying he is on our side, just that he seems to be hitting this one hard, regardless of his political leanings. I could be wrong, but that's what I see right now.


48 posted on 09/15/2004 9:51:35 PM PDT by savedbygrace
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To: Mr_Mary_Jo_Kopechne
Rather - "Did you type ones like this?" Knox - "Yes" Rather - "Containing the same or identical information?" Knox - "The same information, yes"

I would have preferred something more concrete and definitive...something more like, "Did you type documents like these with George W. Bush's name on them? And, if so, where do you think those documents are right now?"

I didn't see or hear that. And the fact that this woman has been all over the place-"I knew Bush." "I didn't know Bush". etc.-calls out for a "newsman" like Dan Rather to "nail it down" much like he did with the Coast Guard spokesman during John-John's plane crash that told him, "Howard Stern thinks you're a dick!"

49 posted on 09/15/2004 9:53:03 PM PDT by blake6900
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To: Mr_Mary_Jo_Kopechne

How does a secretary, at battalion headquarters, know of the personal interactions between junior officers? The other pilots were resentful of LT Bush? How in the world would she know that? I was in the Army for 4.5 years, and from my experience, junior officers don't hang out at battalion headquarters for the clerks to even know who they are.


50 posted on 09/15/2004 9:55:00 PM PDT by IDontLikeToPayTaxes
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To: uberPatriot
John Connally's son, both of Lloyd Bensen's sons, H.L. Hunt's grandson, and Bobby Sakowitz are the names that keep popping up, but that's just W's unit.

LOL! When this story first broke, Geraldine Ferarro was on some talking head show. Her argument was:

* The charges against Bush are absolutely true because when she was a Congressperson, she used to pull strings for wealthy people all the time.

* These charges are outrageous and prove that George W. Bush is Unfit To Command.

51 posted on 09/16/2004 3:49:43 AM PDT by VisualizeSmallerGovernment (Question Liberal Authority)
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To: VisualizeSmallerGovernment
One more reason to be delighted that she never got a sniff of the White House, huh? Even Barnes admits that no one in the Bush family ever requested any string-pulling, so even if the "charges" are true, is W supposed to be unfit for command because of something he had no part in? Boggles the mind, doesn't it?
52 posted on 09/16/2004 8:51:51 AM PDT by uberPatriot
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To: MindBender26

I'm suspicious too. I also wonder how much CBS may have paid Mrs. Knox to do Wednesday's interview. Her gossipy story seems to fit CBS's new focus, which is proving how "accurate" the documents are rather than if they are authentic.

However, only last week Mrs. Knox said she didn't pay much attention to Bush...now she has a definative impression that Bush's attitude reflected arrogance and that he refused Killian's order to take a flight physical. This just happens to coincide with the latest DNC attack ad that includes the song with the lyrics, ..."it aint me, it ain't me, I'm no Senator's son!"... It's another classic case of class warfare, which is a typical strategy of shallow minded liberals. That way they can shore up their main base, the gulible, the ignorant, and the poor.


53 posted on 09/16/2004 9:03:33 AM PDT by American Sovereignty Defender (I'm voting FOR Bush - before voting AGAINST Kerry)
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