Live Thread: CBS Evening News (Dan tells us why we're all wrong)

www.freerepublic.com | September 10, 2004

[Howlin]

Have at it.

******Transcript************

'KEY CHALLENGES TO NATIONAL GUARD DOCUMENTS ANSWERED'
Fri Sep 10 2004 19:03:11 ET

The biggest challenges to the authenticity of the documents featured in the 60 MINUTES segment on President Bush's Texas National Guard service are answered in a report to be broadcast on the CBS EVENING NEWS tonight (6:30-7:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. The report states that the type style, typewriter and the superscript function critics claim did not exist at the time the memos from President Bush's former Texas National Guard commander were typed were indeed all available. In fact, similar raised "th" superscripts have been found on other National Guard documents the White House has released from the president's file.

Furthermore, Marcel Mately, the document and handwriting expert used to authenticate the documents for CBS News and 60 MINUTES, asserts that copies of the memos critics are examining have been degraded by reproduction though photocopying, computer scanning and faxing and are not reliable representations of the memos.

A transcript is attached:

BUSH DOCUMENTS

EVENING NEWS WITH DAN RATHER

9-10-04

Rather Lead In: There were attacks today on the CBS News "60 Minutes" report this week raising new questions about President Bush's Vietnam-era time in the Texas Air National Guard. The questions raised by our report include:

--Did a wealthy Texas oilman-friend of the Bush family use his influence with the speaker of the Texas House of Representatives .. to get George W. Bush a coveted slot in the National Guard .. keeping him out of the draft and any probable service IN Vietnam?

--Did Lieutenant Bush refuse a direct order from his commanding officer?

--Was Lieutenant. Bush suspended for failure to perform up to standards?

--Did Lieutenant Bush ever take a physical he was required and ordered to take? If not, why not?

--And did Lieutenant Bush, in fact, complete his commitment to the Guard?

These questions grew out of new witnesses and new evidence -- including documents written by Lieutenant Bush's squadron commander.

Today, on the internet and elsewhere, some people -- including many who are partisan political operatives -- concentrated not on the key questions the overall story raised but on the documents that were part of the support of the story.

They alleged the documents are FAKE.

Rather: MANY OF THOSE RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CBS DOCUMENTS HAVE FOCUSED ON SOMETHING CALLED SUPERSCRIPT... A KEY THAT AUTOMATICALLY TYPES A RAISED "TH". CRITICS CLAIM TYPEWRITERS DIDN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY IN THE 70S. BUT SOME MODELS DID....IN FACT, OTHER BUSH MILITARY RECORDS ALREADY OFFICIALLY RELEASED BY THE WHITE HOUSE ITSELF SHOW THE SAME SUPERSCRIPT.

HERE'S ONE..... FROM 1968.

SOME ANALYSTS OUTSIDE CBS SAY THEY BELIEVE THE TYPEFACE ON THESE MEMOS IS NEW TIMES ROMAN.... WHICH THEY CLAIM WAS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE 1970S.

BUT THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY THAT DISTRIBUTES THIS TYPING STYLE.... SAYS IT HAS BEEN AVAILABE SINCE 1931. DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY ANALYZED THE DOCUMENTS FOR CBS NEWS.

HE SAYS HE BELIEVES THEY ARE REAL...BUT IS CONCERNED ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING EXAMINED BY SOME OF THE PEOPLE QUESTIONING THE DOCUMENTS....BECAUSE DETIORATION OCCURS EACH TIME A DOCUMENT IS REPRODUCED.....AND THE DOCUMENTS BEING ANALYZED OUTSIDE OF CBS HAVEBEEN PHOTOCOPIED, FAXED, SCANNED AND DOWNLOADED.... AND ARE FAR REMOVED FROM THE DOCUMENTS CBS STARTED WITH WHICH WERE ALSO PHOTOCOPIES.

DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY DID THIS INTERVIEW WITH US PRIOR TO THE 60 MINUTES BROADCAST.

HE LOOKED AT THE DOCUMENTS AND THE SIGNATURES OF COLONEL JERRY KILLIAN.... COMPARING KNOWN DOCUMENTS WITH THE COLONEL'S SIGNATURE ON THE NEWSLY DISCOVERED ONES.

Matley: "WE LOOK BASICALLY AT WHAT'S CALLED SIGNIFICANT OR INSIGNIFICANT FEATURES TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S THE SAME PERSON OR NOT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM IDENTIFYING THEM.

I WOULD SAY BASED ON OUR AVAILABLE HANDWRITING EVIDENCE, YES. THIS IS THE SAME PERSON."

Rather: MATLEY FINDS THE SIGNAT'URES TO BE SOME OF THE MOST COMPELLING EVIDENCE...WE TALKED TO HIM AGAIN TODAY BY SATELLITE.

Matley "SINCE IT IS REPRESENTED THAT SOME OF THEM ARE DEFINITELY HIS... THEN WE CAN CONCLUDE THEY ARE HIS SIGNATURES."

Rather: "ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT QUESTIONS COME ABOUT THESE. WE'RE NOT, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF YOU'RE SURPRISED."

Matley: "I KNEW GOING IN THAT THIS WAS DYNAMITE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND I KNEW THAT POTENTIALLY IT WAS FAR MORE POTENTIAL DAMAGE TO ME PROFESSIONALLY THAN BENEFIT ME. AND I KNEW THAT. BUT WE SEEK THE TRUTH. THAT'S WHAT WE DO. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT YOURSELF OUT. TO SEEK THE TRUTH AND TAKE WHAT COMES FROM IT."

Rather: ROBERT STRONG WAS AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER FOR THE TEXAS AIR NATIONAL GUARD DURING THE VIETNAM YEARS. HE KNEW COL. JERRY KILLIAN, THE MAN CREDITED WITH WRITING THE DOCUMENTS.... AND PAPER WORK... LIKE THESE DOCUMENTS...WAS HIS SPECIALTY. HE IS STANDING BY HIS JUDGEMENT THAT THE DOCUMENTS ARE REAL.

Rather: "WHEN YOU READ THROUGH THESE DOCUMENTS, IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT THESE ARE GENUINE?"

Strong: "WELL,, THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE WAY BUSINESS WAS DONE AT THAT TIME. THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MAN THAT I REMEMBER JERRY KILLIAN BEING. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT'S DISCORDANT WITH WHAT WERE THE TIMES, WHAT WERE THE SITUATION OR WHAT WERE THE PEOPLE INVOLVED."

Rather: STRONG SAYS THE HIGHLY CHARGED POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE OF THE GUARD AT THE TIME... WAS PERFECTLY REPRESENTED IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS

Strong: "IT VERGED ON OUTRIGHT CORRUPTION IN TERMS OF THE FAVORS THAT WERE DONE, THE POWER THAT WAS TRADED. AND IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE. FROM A MORAL AND ETHICAL STANDPOINT. IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE."

Rather: IT IS THE INFORMATION IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS THAT IS MOST COMPELLING FOR PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORD IN THE NATIONAL GUARD. AUTHOR JIM MORE HAS WRITTEN TWO BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT.

Rather: "YOU'VE STUDIED PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORDS FOR 10 YEARS.. ARE THESE DOCUMENTS CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORD AS YOU KNOW IT?"

Moore: "THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORDS AS I KNOW IT."

Rather: "PUT IT IN CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE FOR US ... THE STORY AND WHAT WE CALL THE COUNTERATTACK ON THE STORY. WHERE ARE WE RIGHT NOW?

Moore "I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS SOME INCRIMINATING DOCUMENTS HAVE COME OUT. THE WHITE HOUSE, YOU SHOULD REMEMBER, HAS NOT DISCREDITED THE DOCUMENTS. THEY'RE RELYING ON THE BLOGOSPHERE AND OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THAT. BECAUSE THE WHITE HOUSE PROBABLY KNOWS THESE DOCUMENTS ARE IN FACT REAL."

Rather Tag: The "60 Minutes" report was based NOT solely on the recovered documents .. but on a preponderance of evidence .. including documents that were provided by un-impeachable sources .. and interviews with former officials of the Texas National Guard. If any definitive evidence to the contrary of our story is found, we will report it.

So far, there is none.

[mass55th]

Major Garrett just gave a report with Col. William Campanini who served with Bush. The Colonel said that no way would a Colonel send an individual pilot an order to have a physical. It wasn't done that way. He said pilots were scheduled for physicals based on the month of their birthday. They would be notified on the last day of the month of their birthday, which in Bush's case would be July 31st. Pilots had three months to get their physicals, which I believe would take us to October 31st. The memo written in May order him for a physical, is actually written weeks before he was even scheduled to begin the 3 month period within which he was to get the physical.

[Southack]

Additional items to add to your list:

1. Lt Col Killian didn't type
2. The forged documents had no initials from a clerk
3. There was no CC list (needed for orders)
4. Subject line in memos was normally CAPITALIZED in the military
5. The forged documents used incorrect terminology ("physical examination" instead of "medical")
6. There was no "reciept confirmation box" (required for orders)
7. The superscript "th" in the forged documents was raised half-way above the typed line (consistent with MS Word, but inconsistent with military typewriters which kept everything in-line to avoid writing outside the pre-printed boxes of standard forms)
8. CBS admits that it does *not* have the originals, but only original documents can be proven to be real; copies can *never* be authenticated positively...repeat: only original documents can be proven real. CBS never had the originals, so CBS knew that it was publishing something that couldn't be assured of authenticity.

1 Full Legislative Day Left Until The AWB Expires

[P-Marlowe]

I get the feeling that the person who forged this is under 35 and really had no idea that typewriters were any different than word processors.

[mass55th]

"Did Juan just challenge Mort's character????!!!"

It sounded like it to me. I think Mort should meet Juan in the parking lot.

[SauronOfMordor]

Not a strong point, but another piece in the chain of evidence. If this was the only claim, this would go nowhere, but along with everything else, it is a pretty damning case for forgery...

The pixel-level match with MS Woord 2004 using Times New Roman is pretty much game/set/match

[jejones]

Some analysts outside cbs say they believe the typeface on these memos is new times roman, which they claim was not available in the 1970s. But the owner of the company that distributes this typing style, says it has been available since 1931. Dan has done a very nice bit of Clintonesque/Mooreish deceit here. The owner of the company that distributes the type face (probably Monotype, from what I've read) has no doubt sold it since 1931...but I'd bet that the form you could get it in then was suitable only for use with printing presses, not with typewriters.

[mabelkitty]

Why thank you.
When I was working, other Freepers kept my cubicle bound behind updated on news. Now that I am not, I feel I can at least give something back.

[CFC__VRWC]

Wow! That is some very strong stuff. Katie Couric will not be pleased. It'll be interesting to see how she juggles this situation with her interview on Monday (and Tuesday and Wednesday) with Kitty Kelley.

I expect Katie will swallow her Kool Aid like the good little DNC foot soldier she is and repeat the party line that while the memo might be a fake, it's the allegations it makes that are important, not the fact that the memo itself is a fraud. She may also tee up a few softballs for Kitty Kelly using this -

"Doesn't this attempt by the Bush White House to deflect attention away from the content of these memos just further prove the points you make with your book?"

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Matley struck me as squirrely, nervous and in over his head. Definitely a not-ready-for-prime-time player.

[Dane]

It looks like CBS document wizard Marcel will need to be looking for a new career.

Mime

No doubt that Marcel will use rather's jizz as his mime makeup.

[weegee]

Prosecute for forging his signature, his document (under the guise of being a government document). Are there any FEC laws that figure in?

I see this as a Federal offense. Bigger than Watergate which was a low level break-in with a larger coverup. The cover-up is already underway for this hoax.

[Cboldt]

WE KNOW THE SOURCE...WATCH HANNITY TONIGHT...

Mary is the conduit. I don't think anybody is saying she authored the forgeries. But she is gullible, or daring.

[jackbill]

FAX Andrew Heyward, the President of CBS News at:

Andrew Heyward -- CBS News
Title: President
Department: Headquarters
Phone: (212) 975-4321
Fax: (212) 975-1893
Address: 524 W 57th St, New York, NY 10019

Ask him how long he is going to allow Dan Rather to dig CBS News into the hole of irrelevancy.

[BlessedBeGod]

This was NBC I believe, not CBS.

[johnb838]

Savage is playing the audio of the attacks. It's infuriating. He's calling for Rather to be tossed overboard.

"All I wanna hear this weekend is the sound of the B's. B-1, B-2, B-17, B-52."

[Congressman Billybob]

Thank you for the e-mail addy. I just sent him an e-mail that it'll flay the bark off him, and (I hope) force him to consult with his colleagues and back away from his on-air, blanket approval. We'll see what happens.

John / Billybob

[ClancyJ]

Bush also had good recommendations. And they believe we will ignore all that and believe their stupid phony documents?

Get real.

[sheikdetailfeather]

"Well, DUH, if the format proves they are forgeries, then the content is irrelevant. WAKE UP, DAN."

Juan Williams must have gotten the same talking points from the DNC that Rather got, since he made that same illogical contention on Fox News this evening about how it is "the content" of the memo that people should be focused on instead of the format of the memo. Fred Barnes just about lost it, he was so disgusted.

Too bad Brit Hume wasn't there -- he is sooooo good at dealing with Williams and his stupid comments.

Matchett-PI (posting on sheikdetailfeather's computer)

[Semper Paratus]

John Kerry has just lost another week in his campaign thanks to his Keystone Kops surrogates.

[RetroSexual]

LOL That is really amazing. This guy Matley is completely invalid!