Trying to hit one man (Putin) with an aircraft is quite a challenge but the shock value of trying would be worth the risk of failure.
Posted on 08/24/2004 3:01:38 PM PDT by ConservativeMan55
Per Foxnews Alert. Into the red sea.
60 people aboard the first one.
They tried that in my anger management class. Now I teach the class.
Report: Russian Jet Sent Hijack Signal
32 minutes ago
By STEVE GUTTERMAN, Associated Press Writer
BUCHALKI, Russia - A Russian airliner crashed and another apparently broke up in the air almost simultaneously after they took off from the same Moscow airport Tuesday night, officials said, raising fears of terrorism and leaving little hope that any of at least 89 people on board could have survived.
Authorities said rescuers found wreckage from a Tu-154 jet, which was carrying at least 46 people, about nine hours after it issued a distress signal indicating an attack and disappeared from radar screens over the Rostov region some 600 miles south of Moscow.
At about the same time that plane disappeared, a Tu-134 airliner carrying 43 people crashed in the Tula region, about 125 miles south of Moscow, officials said. The Emergency Situations Ministry later said that everybody on board the Tu-134 was killed.
The planes had left Moscow's Domodedovo airport within 40 minutes of each other Tuesday night and disappeared from radar screens about 11:00 p.m, officials said.
President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) ordered an investigation by the nation's main intelligence agency, the Federal Security Service, and security was tightened at airports across the country.
Authorities have expressed concern that separatists in war-ravaged Chechnya (news - web sites) could carry out attacks linked to this Sunday's election to replace the region's pro-Moscow president, who was killed by a bombing in May. Rebels have been blamed for a series of terror strikes that have claimed hundreds of lives in Russia in recent years.
Witnesses reported seeing an explosion before the first plane crashed about 125 miles south of Moscow, and suspicions of terrorist involvement were compounded by the reports that the Tu-154 airliner that went missing in southern Russia's Rostov region issued a signal indicating the plane was being seized.
Citing an unidentified source in Russia's government, Interfax said the signal came at 11:04 p.m., shortly before the plane disappeared from radar. Emergency and Interior Ministry sources in southern Russia, speaking on condition of anonymity, also told The Associated Press a distress signal had been activated.
The Interfax news agency said emergency workers spotted a fire in the Rostov region, some 600 miles south of Moscow, where the Tu-154 went missing. But rainy weather hampered the search efforts and it took hours before any wreckage was found.
The regional Emergency Situations Ministry chief Viktor Shkareda told AP the plane apparently broke up in the air and that wreckage was spread over an area of some 25-30 miles. Body parts have also been found along with fragments of the plane, Interfax quoted federal Emergency Situations Ministry as saying. It said the parts were found near Gluboky, a village north of the regional capital Rostov-on-Don.
Shkareda said there were 52 people aboard the plane, while emergency officials in Moscow put the number of passengers and crew at 46.
In the Tula region, rescuers found fragments of the Tu-134 jet's tail near the village of Buchalki. Emergency Situations Ministry spokeswoman Marina Ryklina said later there were no survivors.
At about the same time that the Tu-134 crashed, the Tu-154 lost contact with flight controllers, Ryklina said. Interfax, citing Russia's Interstate Aviation Committee, said there were 44 passengers and an unknown number of crew abroad.
The Tu-154 took off from Moscow's Domodedovo airport at 9:35 p.m. Tuesday and the other plane left 40 minutes later, state-run Rossiya television reported.
The Tu-154 belonged to the Russian airline Sibir, which said that the plane had been in service since 1982.
Quoting an unnamed air traffic official in Moscow, ITAR-Tass said that authorities were not ruling out terrorism. Interfax quoted an unnamed Russian aviation security expert as saying the fact that the two planes disappeared around the same time raised suspicions of terrorism.
ITAR-Tass reported that the authorities believe the Tu-134 fell from an altitude of 32,800 feet. It said the plane belonged to small regional airline Volga-Aviaexpress and was being piloted by the company's director, and quoted dispatchers as saying there were 34 passengers and seven crew aboard. Ryklina put the numbers at 35 and eight — a total of 43.
Interfax quoted a Domodedovo airport spokesman as saying there were no foreigners on the passenger lists for either plane.
Authorities said the Tu-134 was headed to the southern city of Volgograd, where Volga-Aviaexpress is based, while the plane that crashed in the Rostov region was flying to the Black Sea resort city of Sochi, where Putin is vacationing.
When Russia's U.N. Ambassador Andrey Denisov was told of the initial report of two near-simultaneous crashes, he said, "Now we have to see if there's terrorism."
In Washington, a U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity Tuesday evening, said it was the understanding of American officials that the two Russian planes disappeared within four minutes of each other, which "in and of itself is suspicious."
BTTT
I wasn't going to say anything, but that's one expert that's eaten some big ol crow.
It's not exactly closely held. "Military Emergency" on the other hand .... (thats on a different "mode" as well.
G.W. will be giving his acceptance speech on Thursday September 2nd. Hmmmmm.... Actually, since there are 31 days in October, Friday September 3rd will be 60 days before the election.
If you find it, will you please FReep it to me?
Tomorrow: Slightly macabre with a chill wind toward the middle-east.
As seres and hugh as this thread is, I still have to thank you for the laugh!
Latest Update:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129919,00.html
"One Russian Jet Crashes; Another Breaks Apart in Air"
Wednesday, August 25, 2004
ARTICLE SNIPPET: "BUCHALKI, Russia — A Russian airliner crashed and another apparently broke up in the air almost simultaneously after they took off from the same Moscow airport Tuesday night, officials said, raising fears of terrorism and leaving little hope that any of at least 89 people on board could have survived.
Authorities said rescuers found wreckage from a Tu-154 jet (search), which was carrying at least 46 people, about nine hours after it issued a distress signal indicating an attack and disappeared from radar screens over the Rostov region (search) some 600 miles south of Moscow.
At about the same time that plane disappeared, a Tu-134 airliner carrying 43 people crashed in the Tula region (search), about 125 miles south of Moscow, officials said. The Emergency Situations Ministry later said that everybody on board the Tu-134 was killed."
Get a grip, he was gently put in his place.
For goodness sake can't we all just get along?
At the Battle of Omdurman (September 2, 1898) an army commanded by the British General Sir Horatio Kitchener defeated the army of the Khalifa, the 'Dervishes' (a name that will be used in this article). It was a bloody demonstration of the superiority of machine guns and artillery over older weapons and marked the successful end of the British efforts to re-conquer the Sudan.
Omdurman is today a suburb of Khartoum in central Sudan, with a population of some 1.5 million. The village of Omdurman was chosen in 1884 as the base of operations by the Mahdi, Muhammad Ahmad. It remained the centre for his theocratic empire after his death in 1885.
The battle took place at Kerreri, 11 km north of Omdurman. Kitchener command a force of 8,000 British regulars and a mixed force of 17,000 Sudanese and Egyptian soldiers. Kitchener arrayed his force in an arc around the village of Egeiga close to the bank of the Nile, where a gunboat flotilla waited in support, facing a wide flat plain with hills rising to the left and right. The British and Egyptian cavalry was placed on either flank.
The Dervish force of around 50,000, including only 3,000 cavalry, was split into five groups; a force of 8,000 under Azbak was arrayed directly opposite the British, in a shallow arc along a mile of a low ridge leading onto the plain; the other Dervish forces were initially concealed from Kitchener's force. Khalifa Addallah al-Taashi and 17,000 men were concealed behind the Surgham hills to the west and rear of Azbak's force, 20,000 more were positioned to the north-west close to the front behind the Kerreri hills, commanded by Ali-Wad-Helu and Sheikh ed-Din. A final group of around 8,000 were gathered on the slope at the right flank of Azbak's force.
The battle began in the early morning, at around 6 a.m. After the clashes of the previous day, the 8,000 men under Azbak advanced straight at the waiting British, quickly followed by about 8,000 of those waiting to the north-west. It was a mixed force of musketmen and spearmen. The British artillery opened fire at around 2,750 m and the Dervish forces were badly reduced before they even came into range of the Maxim guns and volley fire. The frontal attack ended quickly with around 4,000 Dervish casualties, none coming closer than 50 m to the British trenches. A flanking move from the Dervish right was also checked and there were untidy clashes on the opposite flank which scattered the Dervish forces there.
Kitchener was anxious to occupy Omdurman before the remaining Dervish forces could withdraw there and he directed the army to advance on Omdurman. The army was ordered into columns and began the advance. The Britsh light cavalry regiment, the 21st Lancers was sent ahead to clear the plain to the settlement and had a tough time of it, the 400 strong regiment clashed with a force of around 2,500 infantry and drove them back at some cost (three Victoria Crosses were awarded). On the larger scale the Britsh advance allowed the Khalifa to re-organize his forces, he still had over 30,000 men in the field, he directed his main reserve to attack from the west and ordered the forces to the north-west to attack simultaneously over the Kerreri Hills.
Kitchener's force wheeled left in echelon to advance up Surgham ridge and then southwards. To protect the rear a brigade of 3,000, mainly Sudanese and commanded by Hector MacDonald, was reinforced with Maxims and artillery and followed the main force at around 1,350 m. Curiously the supplies and wounded around Egeiga were left almost unprotected.
MacDonald was alerted to the presence of around 15,000 enemy troops moving towards him from the west, out from behind Surgham. He wheeled his force and lined them up to face the enemy charge. The Dervish infantry attacked in two prongs and MacDonald was forced to repeatedly re-order his batallions, the brigade maintained a punishing fire. Kitchener, now aware of the problem, "began to throw his brigades about as if they were companies". MacDonald's brigade was soon reinforced and the Dervish forces were forced back and finally broke or died where they stood. The Dervish forces to the north had regrouped too late and entered the clash only after the force in the central valley had been routed, they pressed Macdonald's Sudanese brigades hard, but the Lincolnshire Regiment was quickly brought up and with sustained section volleys repulsed the advance. A final, despairing and hugely brave, cavalry charge of around 500 men was utterly destroyed. The march on Omdurman was resumed at about 11.30.
Around 10,000 Dervishes were killed and 15,000 wounded, 5,000 were taken prisoner. Kitchener's force lost 48 men with 382 wounded, the majority from MacDonald's command. The Khalifa escaped and survived until 1899.
Kitchener was en-nobled as a baron, Kitchener of Khartoum, for his victory.
Winston Churchill was present at the battle as a reporter and he rode with the 21st Lancers, his account is the basis of this article.
They can turn off the transponder which is the primary tracking device for air traffic control. However they can't turn off the reflected radar signal from the skin of the aircraft. These are two separate signals, often on quite different frequencies. The transponder, aka a beacon, transmitts a signal when "interogated" with a coded signal transmitted from the "radar". The "skin return" is just bouncing a radar signal off of the skin of the aircraft and as I stated, cannot be turned off. Military radars tend to do better at tracking via skin return than civilians ones, but the civilians ATC radars use both methods as well.
Most transponders don't transmitt anything but a code IDing the aircraft and alitude. the range is determined from the delay between the ground (or airborne AWACS can do it, as can most fighters) "radar" transmitting the "interogation" and the reception of the beacon/transponders reply. That gives you position, (lat/lon) and alittude. The rest is calculated by a tracking filter in the software of the "radar" system. (i.e. if you know where is is at some time, and when it is again at a know time later (scans are usually 10-15 seconds) you can inferr it's speed and heading and rate of climb/dive. )
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40142
"Terror fears over simultaneous plane losses"
ARTICLE SNIPPET: "evertheless, many explosions in recent years, blamed primarily on Chechen separatist rebels, have killed hundreds of people, according to NBC.
The aircraft accidents occurred shortly after a bomb exploded at a Moscow bus stop, injuring four. And the Moscow Times reported a fire broke out yesterday morning on a bus in the eastern Moscow, killing all five passengers and seriously injuring the driver."
Welcome Fresh Freeper! You're first post is much better than some.
I need some education.
Are planes refueled from a common source or does each carrier have it's own fuel storage at an airport?
If it is from a common source would there not be more than 2 planes affected? Lastly, how difficult would it be to sabotage the storage tanks (not speculating, just curious)
Trying to hit one man (Putin) with an aircraft is quite a challenge but the shock value of trying would be worth the risk of failure.
Carriers don't store their own fuel, but they may get them from different suppliers. Sometimes a plane will make a stop at an airport without being refueled at all, for example if fuel prices are very high in the country in question.
If it is from a common source would there not be more than 2 planes affected?
Not if they only sabotaged a single tanker.
But I find time bombs a likelier explanation. That's what the prime suspects (terrorists) are experts at, and the near-simultaneity of the incidents would also suggest that.
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