REPUBLICANS PLAN PUSH FOR ELIMINATION OF IRS

The Drudge Report ^ | 8/1/04 | Drudge

[NeoCaveman]

A domestic centerpiece of the Bush/GOP agenda for a second Bush term is getting rid of the Internal Revenue Service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

The Speaker of the House will push for replacing the nation's current tax system with a national sales tax or a value added tax, Hill sources tell DRUDGE.

"People ask me if I’m really calling for the elimination of the IRS, and I say I think that’s a great thing to do for future generations of Americans," Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert explains in his new book, to be released on Wednesday.

"Pushing reform legislation will be difficult. Change of any sort seldom comes easy. But these changes are critical to our economic vitality and our economic security abroad," Hastert declares in SPEAKER: LESSONS FROM FORTY YEARS IN COACHING AND POLITICS.

"“If you own property, stock, or, say, one hundred acres of farmland and tax time is approaching, you don’t want to make a mistake, so you’re almost obliged to go to a certified public accountant, tax preparer, or tax attorney to help you file a correct return. That costs a lot of money. Now multiply the amount you have to pay by the total number of people who are in the same boat. You can’t. No one can because precise numbers don’t exist. But we can stipulate that we’re talking about a huge amount. Now consider that a flat tax, national sales tax, or VAT would not only eliminate the need to do this, it could also eliminate the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) itself and make the process of paying taxes much easier."

"By adopting a VAT, sales tax, or some other alternative, we could begin to change productivity. If you can do that, you can change gross national product and start growing the economy. You could double the economy over the next fifteen years. All of a sudden, the problem of what future generations owe in Social Security and Medicare won’t be so daunting anymore. The answer is to grow the economy, and the key to doing that is making sure we have a tax system that attracts capital and builds incentives to keep it here instead of forcing it out to other nations."

[Your Nightmare]

This is my biggest problem with our current income tax, it is not fair, special interest groups run it and pay off Congress for their special interests. Who in their right mind can say it is fair and equitable? It is used for social engineering and payoffs. I believe 50% of lobbyist lobby for tax breaks.....lets eliminate that and give the power back to the people where it belongs...

I agree. But you need to realize the income tax started pretty simple, too. We're just ~90 years down the line. If we go to a NRST, how many stories about a little girl dying because her parents couldn't afford the sales tax on her surgery before congress exempts life-saving surgery? How many stories with pathetic looking old people complaining they can't afford all their medications because of the sales tax before prescription drugs are exempt? How about daycare? Baby formula? Now fast forward 80 years...this system that appears simple could be more complex than the current one.

[phil_will1]

"I am not sure what you mean. I used to live in California, they had their own income state tax forms and tables. Unless you mean the tables are based on the Federal tables?"

What I meant was that every state tax form that I have ever seen (and I must confess that I am not familiar with Kaly-fornia's) uses either AGI or taxable income from the individual's 1040 as the starting point in computing state taxable income. State income tax returns are typically relatively simple, at least compared to federal returns, because all the preparer has to worry about are a few adjustments between state and federal law.

If Americans are no longer completing 1040s, then each state would have to develop its own system of computing taxable income from the ground up. IOW, its own IRC would grow greatly in complexity.

That just isn't going to happen, at least not across the board. Furthermore, those states who attempted such foolishness would see their economies stagnate relative to their more prosperous and progressive neighbors.

State income taxes will go the way of the dinosaurs shortly after the FairTax is passed.

[phil_will1]

"I am not sure what you mean. I used to live in California, they had their own income state tax forms and tables. Unless you mean the tables are based on the Federal tables?"

What I meant was that every state tax form that I have ever seen (and I must confess that I am not familiar with Kaly-fornia's) uses either AGI or taxable income from the individual's 1040 as the starting point in computing state taxable income. State income tax returns are typically relatively simple, at least compared to federal returns, because all the preparer has to worry about are a few adjustments between state and federal law.

If Americans are no longer completing 1040s, then each state would have to develop its own system of computing taxable income from the ground up. IOW, its own IRC would grow greatly in complexity.

That just isn't going to happen, at least not across the board. Furthermore, those states who attempted such foolishness would see their economies stagnate relative to their more prosperous and progressive neighbors.

State income taxes will go the way of the dinosaurs shortly after the FairTax is passed.

[phil_will1]

"Now fast forward 80 years...this system that appears simple could be more complex than the current one."

I think you are ignoring one very important factor. Most of the complexity in the current system is in the area of deductions. Holding periods for computing gains & losses, carry-forwards for all types of deductions, ceiling and floors ...... virtually all of the complexity is in the area of deductions. If you scrap the whole concept of taxable income, you greatly limit congress's discretion to complicate.

If you had said that there is a risk that congress will complicate a well thought out plan and compromise its simplicity, which is one of its strengths, my response is that I agree, which is why we have to be vigilant and make sure congress doesn't pass some mutant version of the FairTax bill and call it the FairTax.

However, when you say that this proposal could end up becoming as complex as the current system, that is going a bit far IMHO.

[pointsal]

Too many accountants and lawyers with $$$ on the table for this to go forward.

[Dead Dog]

Too many accountants and lawyers with $$$ on the table for this to go forward.

This is a great point, and one that concerned me also. However, the $200 Billion/year tax industry is small in relation to productive and taxed industry's as a whole. A lobby of "Producers" would easily dwarf them.

[Dead Dog]

But hey, if the Brooking's Institute is crying about it, it can't be that bad.

[phil_will1]

"Too many accountants and lawyers with $$$ on the table for this to go forward."

“I discussed the importance of abolishing the income tax because of its tendency to form a habit of servility in the souls of a people that accept it. Servility of soul is bad not only in itself, it is also an open door through which will soon walk the abuses of ambitious government power. Leaders who find themselves with governmental power over a servile people will be quick to conclude that such a people exist to serve them.”
Alan Keyes “The Power of the Purse”, WorldNet Daily, August 27,1999

I hate to keep posting the same stuff over and over, but this quote is so appropriate for the kind of defeatist, victim mentality posts that I just can't help myself.

[Bigun]

If you scrap the whole concept of taxable income, you greatly limit congress's discretion to complicate.

Man did you ever say a mouthful! 90+ years and umpteen jillion pages of code and regulations and STILL we have no precise defination of the word "income". THAT is a problem.

[TEXOKIE]

Thanks for the clarification!

[smokeyb]

"If Americans are no longer completing 1040s, then each state would have to develop its own system of computing taxable income from the ground up. IOW, its own IRC would grow greatly in complexity."

I know here in PA they have already stated that should this happen they would probably follow suit.

[fuzzy122]

I was just saying it's a likely rallying point for the demon-crats to mobilize the "downtrodden" masses.

MEGA-
I put together a page of info here about Kerry. Audio, video and articles. Check it out.

Stay Strong
Fuzzy

[fuzzy122]

I was just saying it's a likely rallying point for the demon-crats to mobilize the "downtrodden" masses.

MEGA-
I put together a page of info here about Kerry. Audio, video and articles. Check it out.

Stay Strong
Fuzzy

[fuzzy122]

I was just saying it's a likely rallying point for the demon-crats to mobilize the "downtrodden" masses.

MEGA-
I put together a page of info here about Kerry. Audio, video and articles. Check it out.

Stay Strong
Fuzzy

[Taxman]

Obligatory "Flush the Johns in '04!" bump. Thanks for the ping. Great site! Bookmarked for future reference.

[mabelkitty]

How about total anarchy?
We take a huge magnet, attach it to a helicopter, and fly over the building - rendering their entire IT network useless coffee holders!
(another upside - all records are lost, so they don't even know who we are or where we are!)