Pigs Sleep
Posted on 07/26/2004 5:49:57 PM PDT by A_Niceguy_in_CA
I was flipping through the coverage of the jack@ss convention and came across Ronnie Reagan telling Chris Mathews that President Bush and the SCOTUS stole the election from Al Gore. The former ballerina, claimed that every single vote recount in Florida by the media resulted in Gore winning the popular vote in Florida and therfore the National Electorial College majority in 2000.
He won the vast majority - and the specific recounts that Gore wanted. Whether this counting would have come out the same way with a bunch of partisan Democrat hacks in a backroom doing the counting is a rather more dubious distinction of course.
The heart of the matter though is that frankly Bush won after the automated recount confirmed his status as winner. All the other recounts were in violation of Florida law - even if abetted by a rogue FL SC.
I thought I had the audio saved, but, I deleted it.
So Matthews is also a liar.
I had some respect for him once.
News agencies combined their talents together and looked at results for several months. When their research was concluded, Bush won every scenario.
I believe he did win every valid recount (i.e. with reasonable counting standards).
Florida recount study: Bush still wins: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/florida.ballots/stories/main.html
Newspapers' recount shows Bush prevailed: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2001-04-03-floridamain.htm
BUSH WINS MASSIVE HERALD RECOUNT: http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3aca62e46722.htm
You just watch the Democrats use Ron Reagan. It's going to be a painful experience, but they'll run him until the wheels fall off, just to tarnish the namesake of Ronald Wilson Reagan. It won't work. Ron Reagan will end up a broken pip-squeak, crying because he sold out his dad's beliefs.
Bush's Media Recount margin grew
to 1600 votes, using Gore ballot-
assessing standards.
A six-month study by a consortium including the New York Times, Washington Post and CNN disproves Fahrenheit's claim that Gore won under any scenario.
As USA Today summarized, on May 11, 2001:
Who would have won if Al Gore had gotten manual counts he requested in four counties? Answer: George W. Bush."
"Who would have won if the U.S. Supreme Court had not stopped the hand recount of undervotes, which are ballots that registered no machine-readable vote for president? Answer: Bush, under three of four standards."
"Who would have won if all disputed ballots — including those rejected by machines because they had more than one vote for president — had been recounted by hand? Answer: Bush, under the two most widely used standards; Gore, under the two least used."
Throughout the Florida election controversy, the focus was on "undervotes"--ballots which were disqualified because the voter had not properly indicated a candidate, such as by punching out a small piece of paper on the paper ballot. The recounts attempted to discern voter intentions from improperly-marked ballots. Thus, if a ballot had a "hanging chad," a recount official might decide that the voter intended to vote for the candidate, but failed to properly punch out the chad; so the recounter would award the candidate a vote from the "spoiled" ballot. Gore was seeking additional recounts only of undervotes. The only scenario by which Gore would have won Florida would have involved recounts of "overvotes"--ballots which were spoiled because the voter voted for more than one candidate (such as by marking two names, or by punching out two chads). Most of the overvotes which were recoverable were those on which the voter had punched out a chad (or made a check mark) and had also written the candidate's name on the write-in line. Gore's lawsuits never sought a recount of overvotes, so even if the Supreme Court had allowed a Florida recount to continue past the legal deadline, Bush still would have won the additional recount which Gore sought.
A very interesting web widget published by the New York Times allows readers to crunch the data any way they want: what standards for counting ballots, whose counting system to apply, and how to treat overvotes. It's certainly possible under some of the variable scenarios to produce a Gore victory. But it's undeniably dishonest for Fahrenheit to assert that Gore would win under any scenario.
Moore amplifies the deceit with a montage of newspaper headlines, purporting to show that Gore really won. One article shows a date of December 19, 2001, with a large headline reading, "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won Election." The article supposedly comes from The Pantagraph, a daily newspaper in Bloomington, Illinois. But actually, the headline is merely for a letter to the editor--not a news article. The letter to the editor headline is significantly enlarged to make it look like an article headline. The letter ran on December 5, not December 19. The Pantagraph has contacted Moore's office to ask for an explanation, but the office has refused to comment.
[Moore response: Cites articles consistent with my explanation. Fails to acknowledge that the only scenarios for a Gore victory involved recounting methods which Gore never requested in his lawsuits. To tell viewers that Gore would have won "under every scenario" is absurd.]
This raises the nature vs. nurture argument. Here you have the flesh and blood son of the greatest president in our lifetimes, and he's a girlie-man. Apparently, he didn't even vote for his father.
Then, you have Michael - the adopted son. Now, he is the one who learned from his father and who understands the things his father taught him.
Nature vs. nurture....
I think there was one out of 15 scenerios were Gore could have won. IIR it was one of the scenerios were their where the judges had to decide how the voter meant to vote because their were either no votes for President or votes for more than one candidate.
"Ron Reagan will end up a broken pip-squeak, crying because he sold out his dad's beliefs."
No he won't. Ronnie and Patty are still mad at their parents for being public figures. They never grew up.
Good. I wish I wasn't surprised.
I'll bet that Mr. Dog Show Host forgot to mention that the media even declared that Al Gore WON Florida before the polls CLOSED there.
You're so right, and that rumbling under our chairs? That's the Gipper rolling in his grave.
What a spoiled, self centered, ungrateful, little(ooops, wouldn't want to say that-it's a hatecrime) princess...
>The truth is Matthews DID challenge him seriously on this.<
He absolutely did not.He raised an eyebrow.
And he did. :)
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