Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Outlook: The Reagan Effect (Reagan didn't end the cold war - Hippies did!!! Hexcentople barf alert!)
Washington Post ^ | 6/28/04 | James G. Hershberg

Posted on 06/28/2004 5:27:09 PM PDT by qam1

The Economist put it most succinctly. After Ronald Reagan died, the magazine placed a photo of him on its cover with the words: "The man who beat communism." Others said much the same.

Now in Sunday's Outlook section, James Hershberg, a Russia expert at George Washington University, says: Wait a minute. It's a lot more complicated than that. If you were to pick one person who ended Soviet communism, it would be Mikhail Gorbachev. If you were to pick a few more, you'd add the Beatles and the counter-culture they represented to a generation of Russians. And then you'd have to mix in all the other factors that led to the stagnation, and ultimately to the unraveling, of the Soviet empire from within. Moreover, while Reagan uttered some stirring lines about the Soviet bloc, he fundamentally did not break with the policy of containment followed by every previous president since Harry Truman.

Hershberg says the exaggeration of Reagan's role reflects a dangerous American habit of neglecting the world's complexity in favor of a sentimental, simplistic and self-centered portrait of a vast, important phenomenon.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: aginghippies; cityofevil; coldwar; genreagan; genx; ithaca; lefties; revisionisthistory; ronaldreagan; wishfulthinking
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-28 next last

1 posted on 06/28/2004 5:27:10 PM PDT by qam1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: qam1; ItsOurTimeNow; PresbyRev; tortoise; Fraulein; StoneColdGOP; Clemenza; malakhi; m18436572; ...
Xer Ping

Ping list for the discussion of the politics and social aspects that directly effects Generation Reagan / Generation-X (Those born from 1965-1981) including all the spending previous generations (i.e. The Baby Boomers) are doing that Gen-X and Y will end up paying for.

Freep mail me to be added or dropped. See my home page for details and previous articles.  

2 posted on 06/28/2004 5:28:57 PM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: qam1
It's a lot more complicated than that.

So many nuances, so little time.

Michael M. Bates: My Side of the Swamp

3 posted on 06/28/2004 5:30:48 PM PDT by Mike Bates (Irish Alzheimer's victim: I only remember the grudges.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: qam1

Let me know what Mr. Hershberg the "Russia Expert" predicted in the 1980s about the future of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. Then I'll decide whether to take him seriously.


4 posted on 06/28/2004 5:33:58 PM PDT by ScottFromSpokane (Re-elect President Bush: http://spokanegop.org/bush.html)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Behind Liberal Lines

You might enjoy the comments making excuses for the Soviet Union from someone from Ithaca about 3/4 of the way down in the article.


5 posted on 06/28/2004 5:34:40 PM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: qam1

6 posted on 06/28/2004 5:42:32 PM PDT by itsamelman (40: "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." 42: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ScottFromSpokane

The self-styled "expert" Herschberg conveniently ignores the opinions of those much closer to the issue and who know it best: every president of the former Soviet bloc in Eastern Europe attended Reagan's funeral as did Lech Walesa. Ask Alexander Solzehnitsyn, who credits REagan for the fall of communism. I travel to Russia and every intelligent Russian I've met says the same thing: but for Reagan, the old system would still be in power. Of course, this "anecdotal" evidence can't stand against a brilliant desk-bound intellectual from GW University published in the all-knowing rag of record, the WashingtonPost.


7 posted on 06/28/2004 5:47:04 PM PDT by laconic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: qam1

The thing is, if Reagan were alive, his own sense of humility would allow him to give some of the credit to pop culture. He was that big a man. There was no smallness in him.

But the political left will never give him the credit he is due. They are that small.





8 posted on 06/28/2004 5:52:28 PM PDT by mc6809e
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: qam1
Bound to happen. The problem with intellectuals is that they want everything to be complicated so that they can tell themselves that no one but they can understand it.

The difficulty with his thesis is that it was not a cultural victory, and that those that he proposes overwhelmed the ossified nomenklatura in fact were largely in sympathy with them or at the very least made great efforts to promote the idea of moral equivalence between a parent society that indulged and defended them and a Soviet Union that, were it victorious, would have crushed them. It wasn't the Beatles, it wasn't peace, love, and dope, and it certainly wasn't "we are the world."

What it was defies efforts to overintellectualize or to see in multitudinous shades of gray. It was this: "My idea of American policy toward the Soviet Union is simple, and some would say simplistic. It is this: 'We win and they lose.' What do you think of that?" -- Ronald Reagan, to future National Security Adviser Richard V. Allen, 1977.

Hershberg and his will go to their graves denying this simple proposition because of its simplicity. Pity them.

9 posted on 06/28/2004 5:56:03 PM PDT by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: qam1

Don't take the brown acid...


10 posted on 06/28/2004 6:00:53 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Billthedrill
The problem with intellectuals is that they want everything to be complicated so that they can tell themselves that no one but they can understand it.

I think they like the "complicated" scenario because they are cowards and this gives them cover from taking a clear stance on anything. It's always...then again...on the other hand...they hate absolutes because they are cowards.

11 posted on 06/28/2004 6:05:51 PM PDT by Huck (Be nice to chubby rodents. You know, woodchucks, guinea pigs, beavers, marmots, porcupines...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Huck
Ayn Rand covered this well in "Atlas Shrugged". Hank Reardon the steel tycoon is saddled with a little weasel whom he nicknames "Non-Absolute". In the end, "Non-Absolute" actually gets a backbone and gives his life to save Reardon. As he dies in Hank's arms, Reardon says something to the effect of: "You did well Tony."

By recognizing that absolutes exist, the kid earned the right to be respected as a human. Most Leftists aren't there yet.

12 posted on 06/28/2004 6:14:04 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: qam1

The Beatles' "counter-culture" revolution in America ushered in Communism, Marxism, and Socialism. It may possible that rock and roll helped generate a youthful rebellion against the Soviet Union but those "rebelling" in America EMBRACED the USSR.


13 posted on 06/28/2004 7:05:56 PM PDT by weegee (Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them. ~~Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: weegee
The Beatles' "counter-culture" revolution in America ushered in Communism, Marxism, and Socialism. It may possible that rock and roll helped generate a youthful rebellion against the Soviet Union but those "rebelling" in America EMBRACED the USSR.

Well yeah, It was John Lenin's song "Image" which extols the virtues of American capitalism that softened the commie's heart.

But popular culture did help bring down the Soviets and it was Reagan who used it to do it by just take Gorby around and showing how great the average American lived.

BTW. Do know what happened to BC2? Why did he get banned?

14 posted on 06/28/2004 7:40:36 PM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: qam1; ClearCase_guy; weegee; Billthedrill; itsamelman
See Thomas M. Frank's The Conquest of Cool: Business Culture, Counterculture, and the Rise of Hip Consumerism. This thoroughly researched cultural history documents the symbiotic relationships that developed among the media, the advertising industry, the so-called counterculture, and left-wing politics during the 1960s. Frank contends that these relationships, and the attitudes they spawned, still dominate media culture and commercial pop culture to this day.

It is an intricate and fascinating story, but the conclusion is relatively simple: the "left" as we know it today is little more than an advertising gimmick run amok. This, according to Frank, is the real reason for the prevalence of left-wing ideology in popular culture and its associated media and advertising industries.

The scales fell from my eyes when I read Conquest of Cool. I think it is the most important book of the last 10 years.

15 posted on 06/28/2004 7:40:44 PM PDT by atomic conspiracy (A few words for the media: Julius Streicher, follow his path, share his fate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: atomic conspiracy

Thank you - I shall. Interesting idea. It has long been an item of curiosity to me why the contemporary left is so eminently bankable. You wouldn't reckon it on the face of things, would you? Its principal adherents aren't, after all, old-line lefties who have read Marcuse and Proudhom and Bakunin. Not even Marx, most of 'em. Yet the stuff sells...


16 posted on 06/28/2004 7:53:22 PM PDT by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Liberty Valance

ha ha ha Woodstock fair warning ha ha ha

Good one, I had forgotten that. Too bad they didn't put it into the water. No, not really. There were good people there too. But so many smelly hippies. And now they are in the universities as professors, and Clinton was in the WH.


17 posted on 06/28/2004 8:02:46 PM PDT by buffyt (Personality disorder - Narcissism harder to treat - requires the affected person's desire to CHANGE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: qam1
"If you were to pick one person who ended Soviet Communism it would be Mikhail Gorbachev."

Oh sure, Gorbachev would have ended Communism without Reagan pushing him -right, and the Hippies and Beatles helped end it? Puuhhhleeze...... The author needs to roll another one and smoke it. What a fantasy.

18 posted on 06/28/2004 8:15:46 PM PDT by fly_so_free (Never underestimate the treachery of the democrat party- Save USA,-Vote a Dem out of office)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: qam1; governsleastgovernsbest; bentfeather; gaspar; NativeNewYorker; drjimmy; Atticus; ...
You might enjoy the comments making excuses for the Soviet Union from someone from Ithaca about 3/4 of the way down in the article.

I don't know if "enjoy" is the correct word, but I am certainly not surprised:

Ithaca, N.Y.: In the early 20th century, the U.S. was fairly industrial, whereas Russia was basically an undeveloped peasant society. Then, within a single generation, Russia industrialized and modernized so fast that by mid-century it had become a world power. Ultimately, its economy collapsed for various reasons. Western orthodoxy says that the Soviet Union failed because it couldn't keep up economically with the US. But isn't that a ridiculous comparison to make given that in 1910, Russia was basically 3rd-world, and the US was more or less 1st-world? Why don't people compare Russian economic development through the 20th century with a country like Brazil, which had comparable resources and potential at the time?

Ithaca is the City of Evil.


19 posted on 06/28/2004 9:28:04 PM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: qam1; weegee
Let me rephrase that

Well yeah, It was John Lenin's song "Image""Imagine" which extols the virtues of American capitalism that softened the commie's heart.

But popular culture did help bring down the Soviets and it was Reagan who used it to do it by just take taking Gorby around and showing him how great the average American lived.

Note to self: Do not talk on cellphone, cook dinner and post to Freerepublic at the same time.

20 posted on 06/28/2004 9:47:45 PM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-28 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson