Posted on 05/30/2004 8:54:37 PM PDT by Badray
Badray, it just seems to me like your plan is parlimientary maneuvering. It is a good plan and I sense that you are concerned with the long term fate of the GOP, which is good since most politicians, pundits and media are focused on the sound bite and short term fix for problems that require a real long term soultion.
Yet, I think we have to put off the Conservative backlash for now. I know I sound like a wimp and a BUsh-Bot but can't we wait until after the election to start the civil war withi the GOP?
Now, if I were there in PA, my own way of arriving there would be along the lines of my post 275.
You are couragous in your stand...even if I would not go to the lengths you are going to go to...and even if others cannot see or grasp the seriousness of the situation from your perspective or the dangers of such a sapper within the gates as Specter. Just always try and temper your actions with the wisdom that speaks to your heart from above as you make this couragous stand.
Unfortunately, we are in a position politically within our country where there are very few clear and obvious paths. We are too far down the road as a nation in apathy, the culture of death, political correctness, self gratification and lasciviousness to allow for a clear view amidst all of the smoke and distraction.
But above it all, the clear view is still there, and there is One who holds that view at all times. The outcome will ultimately rest on our ability as individuals and as a people to get back to that perspective.
I beleive, after all of my travels and involvement in various activities that we shall. There are still enough good people in this nation who understand these principles that ultimately the Hand of Providence will support us...we just may have a very difficult row to hoe between now and then.
II Chron 7:14
IMHO, that scripture reference is a good tag to add to harpseal's Yorktown message.
Corrected sentance.
Am I wrong or isn't Specter also in support of the ICC ?
But look at the 2nd amendment voting records. Hoeffel is 100% anti-gun, Specter is only 14% anti-gun.
Specter is solidly pro-self defense and the right to personal protection. Hoeffel would happily follow England's lead and ban personal gun ownership including hunting rifles.
Thank you, Ray. Your words are much appreciated, considering their source.
Good night, all. And thank you for a most interesting exchange of ideas on this thread today.
You are absolutely correct.
If I found myself in the PA position, I think would move, within 30 days of election day, to one of the swing states where my vote could really count. Then I'd move back and fight for Toomey and against voter fraud. I am convinced that Specter, or his supporters, manipulated the Toomey vote tally, and that they will equally manipulate the Hoeffel vote tally. Just watch (especially Bucks County).
Voting for a Democrat is not an option. Debasing words like "principles" is a tactic that the Liberals employ all the time. The next Administration will likely nominate two or more Supreme Court Justices and the next Senate will or will not conform them. The Left uses the Judiciary to legislate from the bench and itis getting worse by the day. If you help to empower the Democrats, then you are part of the problem.
conform = confirm
Well, that bit of news just ruined my day.
A year ago I predicted a 4 or 5 seat pickup and that was before considering this. So accounting for a Specter loss, I'm still looking at 3 or 4 seats. If I'm half wrong, we still pick up 1 or 2. I have seen no expectation whatsoever anywhere from anyone, even the DNC, that the Dems will gain ground. If they continue their present shenanigans, they'll be losing seats.
On HR 1794, as bad as it was, and despite Hoeffel's vote against it, it passed 303 to 132? Not even close. The worse they make their offerings, the less likely it is to get passed.
I know that this scenario is not what I am suggesting will happen, but assume the worst. Say we lose the majority. Now riddle me this:
If the pubbies can't get anything done now while we have the majority, why is everyone so afraid that if the dems have a slim majority that our world will crash and burn? How will they be able to accomplish anything? Anything that the Senate does must still be approved by the House and signed by the President, right?
Politicians play on our fears that someone worse is out there and that we better vote for them or else. They all do it. Let's call Specter's bluff. We know what he is. If he changes, it will only be for the worse.
I wouldn't classify you as either. It's not an easy or pleasant thing to contemplate and it requires work later on to remove the dem that we just put in.
But at least you do understand the significance of the situation. I've been talking about this since just before the primary and when most people heard it they thought that I was kidding. When I explained it in more detail and gave them time to mull it over, many came back and agreed that I was right.
As to a civil war within the party, the sooner the better. I'm serious. We have been sold a bill of goods by the RINOs. Adding people to our tent who don't share our values does not advance the conservative cause. It only serves to dilute our message and increase the chances of electing liberals.
The same people who push to elect Specter are the same ones that fret over other RINOs bailing out in a close vote. Hello!
We can't keep waiting to remove those who are working to subvert our values and our rights.
I have to disagree with you on Specter's gun voting record. The only gun group to have EVER endorsed him is the NRA. They did that even after he voted for some of the most vile anti gun legislation to go through the Senate. The bad mouthed him in their own magazine and this time around, they endorsed him again because he was the incumbent. The JPFO didn't endorse him. GOA didn't endorse him. RKBA.com wouldn't endorse him. My local gun rights group, FOAC, has never endorsed him.
Recently in another town hall meeting, he admitted that he erred when he voted for the 93 AWB because it violated our 2nd Amendment rights and didn't not have any effect on crime. Yet, a minute later when I pressed him on it and asked whether he would vote for it again if it came up as part of an 'important must pass' package, he said yes almost before I finished the question. He will vote for any gun control measure if he can find some political cover for doing so.
(I also believe that the recent gun legislation votes were more for show than anything else. Everyone got to record a vote that would make their constituents happy and no one had to do anything substantial.)
He will not even acknowledge the true purpose and reason for the 2nd Amendment and only gives lip service to any other aspect of gun ownership.
Removing Specter eliminates his liberal influence from the committee that okays the judges or did you miss that part?
The GOP will retain numerical control of the Senate. The question is whether the have what it takes to actually run it.
Great way to put it! Specter is the ULTIMATE RINO. He must be targeted for defeat.
On most occasions I would agree with you. But not when we are talking about an ULTIMATE RHINO like Specter. We've had to tolerate him for 24 years. It's time for him to go.
If the voters of PA agreed with you, he would not win primaries or elections. It's the voters....
The GOP will retain numerical control of the Senate.
You have no way of knowing that. The GOP could lose control of the Senate tonight if there is a switch, or a resignation, or a death, etc.
The question is whether the have what it takes to actually run it.
Just don't do anything that will put the Democrats in control.
Hillary backed Joe Hoeffel. Nothing more needs to be said.
Unfortunately, that won't work. After you've voted you have essentially no leverage with the party power brokers. If you want to increase the conservative influence within the party, you must do it by using your vote against those who are working against conservative values. If you don't do it now, when we have little or no chance of losing the Senate you'll never do it, you'll (the rhetorical "you," not you personally) just continue to complain how the party elite never pays any attention to you while you continue to vote as they dictate. The very same thing has marginalized black voices within the Democrat party.
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