Iraq Artillery Shell Contained 3-4 Liters of Sarin

Fox News ^ | May 17, 2004

[Living Free in NH]

Breaking news ... nothing follows

[El Gato]

When they used Sarin in Japan in the subway, weren't there a relatively few number of casualties? Anybody know how much was released in Japan?

The Japanese release was also far from optimal. You need to spread the stuff around quite a bit. It's not really a gas, but rather a liquid, so you need to vaporize or at least spray it around.

[KJacob]

Best liberal idiocy I've heard yet:
"The shell wasn't marked so it was probably misplaced when Saddam destroyed the other ones."



That is good. Maybe it wasn't marked so it would escape inspection. Who knows how many more there are?

[eyespysomething]

At this point, the terrorists learned that they have to mix the agents together THEY WILL NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN!

Prayers for the troops, and civilians over there.

[Corin Stormhands]

Best liberal idiocy I've heard yet: "The shell wasn't marked so it was probably misplaced when Saddam destroyed the other ones."

Oh yeah, probably had a post-it note that said "File with Rose Law Firm records..."

[Sabertooth]

WMDs, Nerve Agents, and Organophosphates (about those Iraqi "pesticides"...)
Gulflink.com / Kentucky Regional Poison Center

Posted on 04/07/2003 11:54:20 AM PDT by Sabertooth

Nerve agent (excerpt)

Nerve agents are organophosphate compounds. Nerve agents are normally divided into G-agents (fluorine- or cyanide-containing organophosphates) and V-agents (sulfur-containing organophosphates). The principal nerve agents are tabun (GA), sarin (GB), soman (GD), cyclosarin (GF), and VX

Nerve agents are all viscous liquids, not gases per se. However, the vapor pressures of the G-series nerve agents are sufficiently high for the vapors to be rapidly lethal. GB is so volatile that small droplets released from a shell exploding in the air may never reach the ground. This total volatilization means that GB is largely a vapor hazard. G-agents are potent inhibitors of the enzyme acetylcholinesterase, which is required for the function of many nerves and muscles. People poisoned by G-agents may display the following symptoms: difficulty breathing, drooling, excessive sweating, nausea, vomiting, cramps, twitching, jerking, staggering, headache, confusion, drowsiness, coma, and convulsions. The number and severity of the symptoms depend on the quantity and route of entry of the nerve agent into the body.

When a nerve agent is inhaled, a prominent symptom is the pinpointing of the pupils (miosis) and a dimness of vision. Nerve agents are cumulative poisons. Repeated exposure to low concentrations, if not too far apart, will produce symptoms.
Gulflink

Organophosphate Pesticides - Introduction (excerpt)

The organophosphates have replaced DDT as the leading pesticides because of their rapid breakdown into environmentally safe products. However, they have far more immediate toxicity than DDT and other related products.

There are more than 40 organophosphate pesticides on the market today and all can have acute and sub-acute toxicity. They are used in agriculture, homes, gardens, and in veterinary practice. They are all inhibitors of acetylcholinesterase (AChE) and cause similar symptoms. In 1999, more than 13,000 cases of organophosphate poisoning were reported to US poison centers, with more than 3000 cases seen in the emergency department (ED) and 83 fatalities.

Carbamate insecticides have a similar action of inhibition of acetylcholinesterase. However it is a temporary bond, usually lasting less than 12 hours. Additionally, the carbamates have less penetration across the blood-brain barrier than the organophosphates.
Kentucky Regional Poison Center

---

[wingnutx]

At this point, the terrorists learned that they have to mix the agents together

With any luck they will inflict a pretty large bodycount upon themselves doing so. There's a reason these things are designed to mix by themselves, and I don't think the jihadis have too many A-level hazmat suits :)

[Dog Gone]

All we really need now is to know when it was manufactured...

...and where the rest of shells in that manufacturing batch are today.

[dd5339]

That's enough Sarin to make life unpleasant.

Semper Fi

[Straight Vermonter]

That was my first thought when I heard the story. Surely this shell came from a stockpile of similarly loaded shells. They wouldn't just load one shell.

[TomGuy]

At this point, the terrorists learned that they have to mix the agents together THEY WILL NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN!

All they need to do is turn to the cable news channels. The analysts are telling what the terrorists did wrong and how to correct their error.

[If the terrorists got this shell from a stockpile, they will try again and learn from their mistakes. Too, as one analyst said, these shells are small enough as to be very easy to transport around Iraq or to sneak into other Nations.]

[McGavin999]

Wonder how many people have figured out that if Saddam didn't mark his chemical weapons, how many times did the weapons inspectors walk right past his stockpiles?

[Gandalf_The_Gray]

Why was this stuff such a dud?

The shell was probably a "binary" round rather then just a container filled with the lethal agent. Binary munitions have two compartments; each is filled with a relatively harmless "precursor" chemical. The two ingredients need to be properly mixed to form the finished nerve agent. This makes for much safer storage and handling since the shells don't become lethal until fired. Upon firing the round is "spun up" by the rifling in the gun barrel which causes the two components to mix properly. The bursting charge then releases and disperses the agent.

The terrorist who fabricated the "IED" more then likely did not know that he had a chemical weapon shell. Thinking it was an ordinary HE round, he wired it as a roadside bobby-trap. When the shell exploded very little actual Sarin was produced because of the omitted mixing phase.

That's most likely why it seemed to be a "dud".

Regards,
GtG

[Semper Paratus]

At this point, the terrorists learned that they have to mix the agents together

They'll probably wipe out a couple of neigborhoods before they get it down right.

[El Gato]

Prayers for the troops, and civilians over there.

Who's to say all the undiscovered binary shells are "over there"? They may be coming to a mall or convention center near you, but this time they'll know to mix the stuff somehow before setting off the bursting charge.

[brownsfan]

"Whew, JMO, maybe you should lose your AP liberal media bias."

Down Fido. There was no call for an attack. Dawn53 said, "realtively few". That means, relative to the damage that could have done. It does not minimize, or discount the damage, and deaths that did happen.

[dartuser]

Yes! ... No doubt this is a new Iraqi method of applying pesticides to crops ... fire 155mm shells into the field ...

What will the libs think of next ...

[jwpjr]

It's pretty tricky to disperse this chemical as part of a weapon. It is stored as separate chemicals and must be mixed in the proper ratio at the time of the detonation. The detonation serves only to disperse the chemical, it is not intended as part of the weapon's potential for damage. Apparently this particular shell did not explode as planned. It was part of an IED plan which meant there was additional explosives that were intended to set off the explosives in the shell itself. The internal charge did not go off as planned so the the entire package was said to be 'partially exploded.' Its efficiency would have been further diminished by the fact it was being deployed in an open air environment, not in an enclosed are such as the Japanese subway where it was used with much more success. I think that by itself, it's just a strange occurrence but it could well be the first step in finding out a lot more about what happened to the chemicals that were never accounted for.

[eyespysomething]

Who's to say all the undiscovered binary shells are "over there"?

While you are correct, I still think the people in Iraq face a larger threat from this than I do. Don't worry, I pray for people over here too.

[TomGuy]

They'll probably wipe out a couple of neigborhoods before they get it down right.

Mistakes happen. lol

Senior Palestinian militant killed in explosion in his Rafah home in apparent accident
			Posted by TomGuy to yonif On News/Activism 05/17/2004 5:33:48 PM CDT #15 of 43 "Daddy, do I connect the green wire to the red [B O O M]"

[dawn53]

By casualties, I was speaking of deaths.

Somebody mentioned that the use of Sarin gas could result in another 9/11 and another person mentioned that what was found was enough to take out tens of thousands of people.

My statement about a relatively low number of casualties from the Japan attack, was dealing with the dead, 12, as opposed to say what could have been if the attack had been more successful.