Posted on 05/17/2004 7:20:20 AM PDT by Nexus
Just now, looking for copy...
I lost track of who posted that atropine was worse.
Sorry about that.
It's been 24 years since I was in the army, but it seems possible that low-level (extremely low level) exposure to drugs could help before hand..
IIRC, my training was, once an exposure to nerve agent occurred, atropine was administered.. ONCE.. It could not be administered again...
This indicates that an exposed soldier, already on atropine, being exposed to nerve agent again, would be in serious hurt.. possibly fatal..
This yellowcake-like twisting of the truth is getting on my nrves.
THE ADMINISTRATION TOLD THE SADDAM REGIME BEFORE MILITARY ACTION BEGAN THAT IF HE CARRIED OUT HIS THREAT TO USE WMD ON OOUR TROOPS, THE US WOULD RESPOND IN KIND. NO THREAT OF THIS KIND WAS MADE ABOUT TERRORISTS. WE'D BE INDISCRIMINITELY KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE.
Be it far from me to be called the 'chief' naysayer. Those wiser than myself had to convince me.
We have found sarin gas and mustard gas in Iraq in the last 14 days.
So? They found a vial of botulism in a scientist's refrigerator. Don't hear Fox reporting that constantly anymore do you? Could it be it wasn't the WMDs that our Armed Forces went over there looking for? Wait a minute, they went over there to 'spread democracy'. Never mind, could you get back to me when the RNC makes up its mind what the latest excuse is?
The thwarted WMD attack in Jordan was found to have VX nerve gas and 70 or so other chemicals, widely believed to come from Syria via Iraq.
This is what I love about you guys. Widely believed by who? Fox? National Review? The Weekly Standard? Could you provide some evidence of 'widely believed'? Because right now, it's 'widely believed', even by those in the administration, that the intelligence was wrong. It's just a few partisans like yourself that are going to hang onto this angle for decades
Powell warned the UN pre-war that convoys of trucks were leaving Iraq for Syria with what was widely presumed to be WMD. The president did the right thing going to Iraq, especially given Saddam's decade old relationship with Osama bin Laden.
Of course even on the PNAC's own website, the letter by Al-Zarqawi debunks the myth that this decade long 'relationship' existed. What it does do, however, is to lament over the lack of Al Qaeda before and what needs to change moving forward
Where do you see spin?
It can be made by any third rate wacko group with off the shelf chemicals.....
Do a little reading on this stuff, it can be made in a garage, and the ingredients can be found with a few clicks on a computer. Again, I am not impressed.
Now if they found a few small nuclear weapons with delivery systems, or a few dirty bombs that would contaminate an area for a hundred years, I'd be impressed.
That's what the leftists do.
Well if they said that, they'd be right. LOL!
They up the bar. Now it has to be nuclear to fit in the WMD category for you.
Thats not what I stated. Now who is the one that is spinning this? Hehehe
Sheesh - Kerry is that you?
No, it's Joe. And your spin is speeding up the rotation of the earth. Please stop.
Again, that crap has been around many many years, and has been used by small wacko groups. The wacko group in Japan even stated that it was easy to obtain and use.
That is why I am not impressed.....
BTRL
But why put pesticide in a shell ?
Makes me go, uh oh! Good for Fox btw, for having the guts to report this.
Oh, please. "...the letter by Al-Zarqawi debunks the myth that this decade long 'relationship'.
Now you believe Zarqawi? Stop. You're killing me. My sides are splitting. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
You make fun of conservative news sources and then have the gall to cite Zarqawi as a legitimate news source? Whatever your getting paid, it's too much because only the most dedicated leftist could believe a word of what you are posting here.
No, no relationship between OBL and Saddam. Nope. None at all.
Less than two months before 9/11/01, the state-controlled Iraqi newspaper “Al-Nasiriya” carried a column headlined, “American, an Obsession called Osama Bin Ladin.” (July 21, 2001)
In the piece, Baath Party writer Naeem Abd Muhalhal predicted that bin Laden would attack the US “with the seriousness of the Bedouin of the desert about the way he will try to bomb the Pentagon after he destroys the White House.”
The same state-approved column also insisted that bin Laden “will strike America on the arm that is already hurting,” and that the US “will curse the memory of Frank Sinatra every time he hears his songs” – an apparent reference to the Sinatra classic, “New York, New York”.
(Link below)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1106657/posts?page=1
List of newspaper article in the 90's which mention the world's concern regarding the growing relationship between OBL and Saddam: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/946809/posts?page=1
Son of Saddam coordinates OBL activities:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/951911/posts
The AQ connection (excellent):http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/944617/posts?page=2
Western Nightmare: http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,798270,00.html
Saddam's link to OBL: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/866105/posts
NYT: Iraq and AQ agree to cooperate: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/985906/posts
Document linking them: http://tennessean.com/nation-world/archives/03/06/34908297.shtml?Element_ID=34908297
Iraq and terrorism - no doubt about it: http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins091903.asp
A federal judge rules there are links:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/986293/posts
Wall Street Journal on Iraq and AQ:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987129/posts
Iraq and Iran contact OBL: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/981055/posts
More evidence: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F27%2Fwalq27.xml
Saddam's AQ connection: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/969032/posts
Further connections: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1007969/posts
What a court of law said about the connections:
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/98110402.htm
Some miscellaneous stuff on connections:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/989201/posts
Saddam's Ambassador to Al Qaeda: (February 2004, Weekly Standard)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1083778/posts
Yes - it's NewsMax but loaded with interesting bullet points.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1097521/posts?page=1
Saddam's Fingerprints on NY Bombing (Wall Street Journal, June 1993)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1115387/posts
Colin Powell: Iraq and AQ Partners for Years (CNN, February 2003)
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/sprj.irq.alqaeda.links/
The Iraq-Al Qaeda Connections (September 2003, Richard Miniter)
http://www.techcentralstation.com/092503F.html
Oil for Food Scandal Ties Iraq and Al Qaeda (June 2003)
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1125899/posts
Saddam and OBL Make a Pact (The New Yorker, February 2003):
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030210fa_fact
Al Qaeda's Poison Gas (Wall Street Journal, April 2004):
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005016
Wolfowitz Says Saddam behind 9/11 Attacks:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/921398/posts
Saddam behind first WTC attack - PBS, Laurie Mylroie:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/mylroie.html
Growing Evidence of Saddam and Al Qaeda Link, The Weekly Standard, July 2003:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/946997/posts
Qusay Hussein Coordinated Iraq special operations with Bin Laden Terrorist Activities, Yossef Bodansky, National Press Club
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/951911/posts
The Western Nightmare: Saddam and Bin Laden vs. the Rest of the World, The Guardian Unlimited:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,798270,00.html
Saddam Link to Bin Laden, Julian Borger, The Guardian, February 1999
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/866105/posts
The Al Qaeda Connection, The Weekly Standard, July 2003
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/944617/posts?page=2
Cheney lectures Russert on Iraq/911 Link, September 2003:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/982713/posts
No Question About It, National Review, September 2003
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins091903.asp
Iraq: A Federal Judges Point of View
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/986293/posts
Mohammed's Account links Iraq to 9/11 and OKC:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987075/posts
Free Republic Thread that mentions so me books Freepers might be interested in on this topic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/977221/posts?page=8
The Proof that Saddam Worked with AQ, The Telegraph, April 2003:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F04%2F27%2Fwalq27.xml
Saddam's AQ Connection, The Weekly Standard, September 2003
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/969032/posts
September 11 Victims Sue Iraq:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2237332.stm
Osama's Best Friend: The Further Connections Between Al Qaeda and Saddam, The Weekly Standard, November 2003
Terrorist Behind 9/11 Attacks Trained by Saddam, The Telegraph, December 2003
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1007969/posts
James Woolsey Links Iraq and AQ, CNN Interview, March 2004, Also see Posts #34 and #35
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/1104121/posts
A Geocities Interesting Web Site with maps and connections:
http://www.geocities.com/republican_strategist/Iraq-Bin-Laden.html
Bin Laden indicted in federal court, read down to find information that Bin Laden agreed to not attack Iraq and to work cooperatively with Iraq:
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/98110402.htm
Case Closed, The Weekly Standard, November 03
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/378fmxyz.asp
CBS - Lawsuit: Iraq involved in 9/11:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/05/september11/main520874.shtml
Exploring Iraq's Involvement in pre-9/11 Acts, The Indianapolis Star:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/746225/posts
The Iraq/AQ Connection: Richard Minister again
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/989201/posts
Militia Defector says Baghdad trained Al Qaeda fighters in chemical weapons, July 2002
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/743892/posts
The Clinton View of Iraq/AQ Ties, The Weekly Standard, December 2003
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/527uwabl.asp
Saddam Controlled the Camps (Iraq/AQ Ties): The London Observer, November 01
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/741676/posts
Saddam's Terror Ties that Critics Ignore, National Review, October 2003:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1005579/posts
Tape Shows General Wesley Clark linking Iraq and AQ:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1056113/posts
Freeper list of links between AQ and Iraq:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/850346/posts
Salman Pak (Aviation Weekly)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/865435/posts
Iraq's WMD have been found:
http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/05/11/World/Investigative.Reportsaddams.Wmd.Have.Been.Found-670120.shtml
Right. It's interesting the definition of "Smoking Gun" suddenly changed from whether he had stockpiles of viable WMD illegally hidden to "the question was whether he had active WMD programs".
Kay is sounding more Blixie-like all the time.
The shell that was found was not made by a wacko in his garage. It's a manufactured type which Saddam is known to had had, claimed to have destroyed and has now been found again. It's not as deadly as a nuke, but deadlier than a dirty bomb.
Because it was believed for years to be an effective weapon against conventional forces..
That is, until conventional forces began equipping their troops with countermeasures..
The Germans used Mustard Gas and Lewisite and Chlorine gas against Allied forces in WW1.
They found it to be effective if "conditions were favorable"..
If conditions were "not favorable", it could backfire on the user.. (double edged sword)
Still, it was a risk vs. reward sort of thing, and war is a gamble anyway..
That's why my grandfather suffered from exposure to mustard gas until the day he died, one lung completely gone, and the remaining one so damaged he spent every winter in a vet's hospital huddled in an oxygen tent to stay alive..
He "lived" like that for some 35 years before finally passing away..
I still remember the scars on his arms, neck, back, legs, waist.. everywhere..
He and his fellows didn't have "gas masks".. there wasn't any such items issued back then..
...Or for not having given Blixie more time to find them, and/or for not having told him where they were hidden.
You make fun of conservative news sources and then have the gall to cite Zarqawi as a legitimate news source? Whatever your getting paid, it's too much because only the most dedicated leftist could believe a word of what you are posting here.
I feel for you, I really do. Listen real carefully. The letter is on the PNAC's website. You know them? The organization Bill Kristol and half the administration came from? They used the letter, not me. In effect, they were using the letter to argue the neocon POV. Guess it didn't work since even you don't believe it.
Thanks for all the links. I notice a good portion is from the Weekly Standard, National Review, etc. Wonder why that is? Could it be no one else in the media believes the line anymore? LOL, I see you even pulled out a NewsMax. Come on, you couldn't get anything from the Ananova?
U.S. Weapons Inspector David Kay (the good one) submitted as much to Congress and was immediately “pooh poohed” by members who had agendas that didn’t benefit from his findings. The following is from the Heritage Foundation’s October 8, 2003 report on his testimony:
"Iraq's WMD programs spanned more than two decades, involved thousands of people, billions of dollars, and were elaborately shielded by security and deception operations that continued even beyond the end of Operation Iraqi Freedom.”
Digging for the evidence is a Herculean task. For instance, the inspectors have to go through Iraq's huge stocks of conventional weapons as it was the Iraqi practice was to mix unmarked chemical ordinance in with conventional. Now, Iraq has 130 known Ammunition Storage Points, many of which are 50 miles square and hold an estimated 600,000 tons of artillery shells, bombs, etc. Of these vast piles, only 10 have been examined so far.
More details can be found in this article on their website.
Sorry, I am just not impressed by Sarin. Again, it can be made in anyones garage with off the shelf chemicals. With two clicks of the mouse, you can find the ingredients. Even the small wacko group in Japan stated they found it easy to obtain and use. That is why I am not impressed.
well - two to five liters of the stuff in an airburst 155mm shell is not grounds for superpower war - but the dishonesty behind its very existence in the face of UN resolutions tracing back through a dozen UN resolutions could prove to be the first step in our long slow march back to reality since the invasion in 2003.
From what I remember of that cult in Japan was that it did take them a few attempts to get the mix right but essentially you are correct- anyone determined enough could make this stuff. And without a complex delivery system it is hardly a WMD. A fertilizer truck bomb is more deadly.
And logically, if we discover Saddam had active programs the revised line will be, "No indication they were going to use them." Bet on it!
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