Throwing Victory Away

The New York Post ^ | May 13, 2004 | Ralph Peters

[Truth29]

May 13, 2004 -- QUIET isn't the same thing as peace. As a column of Marines paraded through Fallujah this week, it was done at the sufferance of our enemies. We lost the battle of Fallujah. By surrendering. The Coalition Provisional Authority insists that quiet streets are what matter. But the streets were quiet under Saddam. As they may one day be quiet under religious fanatics. Is that our sole remaining goal in Iraq? A phony calm that leaves terrorists in power?

[prion]

Ow. That hurts to read.

[quantim]

A fundamental problem is that our military is fighting 21st-century conflicts, while our diplomats and bureaucrats are still mired in 20th-century models of how the world should work (but doesn't and won't).

Kinda' says it all.

[KellyAdmirer]

I think this is a bit over-dramatic. It's easy to say we chickened out. It's their country, it may sound cool to say we'll just kill them all to "win," but there's more to winning than destroying the place completely. No soldiers have been killed there recently, and we can concentrate on the real problem down South, so there are real benefits to us. I think it's working out pretty well so far, and we can always go back and do what's necessary later if necessary.

[Brasil]

Fear is not peace.

[T'wit]

I don't think it's true. We've had other reports that the marines are merely pulled back a little and still in charge. Nobody turned tail and slunk out of town.

[ksen]

Just wait til the Bushbots read this......did you pack your asbestos undies?

[Mr. Jeeves]

Peters seems to be basing his assessment of the situation on the New York Times editorial page's assessment of the situation.

Other articles recently posted on FR have indicated there is a lot more going in in Fallujah than we know about.

[Uncle Miltie]

"We lost the battle of Fallujah. By surrendering."

Truth hurts, bump.

[KJacob]

The problem is what may look like defeat today may in fact lead to victory in a short time. Armchair quarterbacking is bad enough in sports but it is completely wrong in a war. In every war there have been times when it appeared we would lose. I have faith in our military.

[Barlowmaker]

I saw Peters sitting in a MSNBC studio last night. There is no dateline to this article.

I wonder when was the last time he set foot in Falluja? Iraq? Or, is he getting his info, as most of the disgruntled ex-Army pundits do, from the chronic malcontent officer and civilian remnants from Bill Clinton/Bill Cohen/Togo West's Pentagon?

You know, these were the folks who recruited hardboiled professional soldiers like Lynndie England to be a sexual "Army of One".

[AIBC]

The Geneva conventions relate to warfare as the world experienced it during WWII. They are irrelevant to anti-terrorist actions. There is no official "terrorists" army. We are dealing with underground millitants, who kill US, Iraqi and other citizens just to create terror and mayhem. Since there is no officially recognized enemy force, then the Geneva convention rules would not apply in anti-terrorist activities.
Since it is very unlikely that the UNO will congregate any time soon to hammer out new rules, specifically designed for anti-terrorist measures, then it is indeed up to our politicians to determine these rules.
It is very saddening to see how our civillian command is using its pre-election political games to fight this war. In the process they are risking soldiers' lives.

[Moby Grape]

You are right, truth hurts....it is just such backing off that will cause loss of support for Bush's handling of Iraq. (particularly when the reason we were going after these people was to get the killers of the four mutilated workers).

As Patton said, Americans will not accept a loser.....Americans want JUSTICE and they want it NOW.

[keysguy]

If anyone out there thought we were fighting a "perfect" war where everything would go our way all the time, guess what, it doesn't always work that way. However, if you talk to the troops that are coming home from Iraq, or read some of their letters, you get a different story from most. Electric is back, oil is running through the pipes, the emphasis is on helping people instead of building palaces, people have hope for once, the progress we have made should far overshadow the disappointment of not having a perfect wartime trajectory.

[philsoc]

but where are the arrests of those who mutilated the four contractors? This is as much a capitulation to political winds as was the retreats from Somalia and the Lebanon...

Our word has to mean something.

[Polybius]

"We lost the battle of Fallujah. By surrendering."....... Truth hurts, bump.

At the current time, although there is no fighting in Fahullah, the entire city is still encircled by the U.S. Marines and the jihadis inside are trapped like rats.

We have "lost the battle of Fallujah" just as MacArthur "lost" the Battle of Rabaul.

In the mean time, on the Shiite side, the Shiite clergy has turned it's back on Muqtada al-Sadr and, day by day, the U.S. is wreaking havok on his militia.

20 Of Sadr's Mahdi Army Die In Battle At Mosque

Sometimes battles are won (or lost as in the case of Pickett's Charge) by all out frontal assaults. Sometimes battles are won by other means as at Rabaul.

The way that you "throw victory away" is is to declare defeat whenever you are confused by the fog of war.

"To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill."........... -Sun Tzu

[PMCarey]

And for another point of view ...

http://www.belmontclub.blogspot.com

[gandalftb]

This is not the truth. This is typical slop from armchair pundits that can only call 'em from the bench. This is comment only, not the news. The Marines are done cratering out Al-Jawlan/Falluja, because they can't find enough enemy to kill to stay on in force. The recent foray down main street was very peaceful. Everyone in Falluja knows what will happen if a shot is fired, even in celebration. They have enough information about the Marines.

Photos of the street crowd after the Marine convoy left on Monday show thousands celebrating, not one masked gunman, no rpg's waved around, only 2 AK's being held up.

This Viet Nam/capitulation scenario is just plain crap, toughen up, quit blinking!

This was released yesterday by 1MEF:

FALLUJAH – Marines near Fallujah were approved to start the Fallujah Outreach Center Project. This will be a program for teaching local Iraqis trade skills. Job skills taught will include plumbing, electrical and construction for more than 80 young men while providing employment at the same time.

The center will be constructed north of the Fallujah Liaison Team building. This construction project will use materials and equipment from qualified Fallujah business and vendors.

Employment for Fallujans continues to climb. Since the end of offensive operations, 1,700 Iraqis are employed in the Fallujah Brigade and another 138 are employed in locally contracted projects. Projects yet to be started will boost that number by another 205.

You may disagree with hiring our former enemies, but the goal of war is to get your enemy to stop fighting. If yesterday's enemy gets used to accomplishment, earning money and supporting a family he will not be enemy enough to start fighting again.

Let's get simple, Marines don't surrender. They never walk away from a fight. This article and all like it are nothing but loose talk by ignorant cowards.

[Barlowmaker]

Ralph Peters

Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Peters (USA, Ret.) was assigned, prior to his recent retirement to the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence , where he was responsible for future warfare. 1998 Bio

Lieutenant General Claudia J. Kennedy

She was Assistant Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence 1995-97 and Deputy Chief of Staff and Lieutenant General since 1997 and Acting Chief of Staff for Intelligence in 1997. Source

Looks like Ralph worked for Claudia. Kerry's NSA gal.

[NutCrackerBoy]

It hurts to read this, there is some truth to it, and I welcome the Jacksonian rhetoric. However, I think the overwhelming reality is that any faction that goes head-to-head with Coalition forces is in a world of hurt. This trumps the smaller issue that we sometimes call our shot and then settle on a different outcome.