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NJ politicians: Catholic Church is seeking too big a role, Senate leader leaves Church
Philly.com | 05.09.04 | Tom Turcol

Posted on 05/09/2004 4:02:12 PM PDT by Coleus

N.J. politicians: Church is seeking too big a role




Inquirer Staff Writer

Roman Catholic politicians in New Jersey, including one who left the church yesterday, are expressing anger at what they say is an attempt by church leaders to force them to decide between their government oaths and their religion.

Elected officials said that escalating demands by the church hierarchy in New Jersey that Gov. McGreevey and others vote in accordance with Catholic doctrine on public issues runs counter to the principle of the separation of church and state.

State Senate Majority Leader Bernard Kenny said he told his pastor yesterday that he had decided to leave the church after 57 years.

Senator Bernard F. Kenney, Jr. (D)

If every faith starts trying to impose their rules on elected officials, democracy is going to be factionalized along religious lines," said Kenny, a Democrat from Hudson County.

Another Catholic Democrat, U.S. Rep. William Pascrell Jr. of Essex County, said he "was not sent to Congress to follow the dictates of the Catholic Church. I have to represent everybody in my district. That's what democracy is all about."

Pascrell and others said the church's position also threatened to resurrect the stigma against Catholics running for office that was erased by President John F. Kennedy's election nearly a half-century ago. During the 1960 campaign, Kennedy and Catholic leaders assured a skeptical public that the church would not influence his decisions as president.

"This is exactly what the Catholic Church said 50 years ago would not happen when Catholic politicians were trying to get elected to office," said Kenny, a former altar boy. "It is a total reversal of the position that enabled Catholics to represent people of all faiths and all backgrounds."

The church's increasingly aggressive stance sent shudders through the ranks of Catholic politicians in a state where the majority of elected officials support abortion rights, as do three-quarters of the voters.

The church ignited a political firestorm in the last few weeks when leading clerics, including the archbishop of Newark, declared that McGreevey and other elected officials should be denied Holy Communion because of their support for abortion rights, embryonic stem-cell research, and other programs that run counter to church doctrine.

As the pressure from top clerics grew, McGreevey said he would abide by the church's wishes and not attempt to receive Communion, though he reasserted his independence from the church in running the state.

"I'm a Catholic and I greatly value my faith and draw great strength from it, but I also have a constitutional obligation as governor," McGreevey said in an interview Friday.

The governor, who faces reelection next year, added: "I'm responsible to eight and a half million citizens who represent diverse faiths and backgrounds."

Unlike McGreevey, Pascrell said he would not submit to the church's directive with regard to the Eucharist. "I will continue receiving Communion - not in defiance but out of conscience. I have nothing to apologize for."

State Sen. Raymond Lesniak, a veteran Democrat from Union County, said that he would follow his church's wishes in New Jersey and that he would drive to New York City to receive Communion.

Lesniak, a former altar boy like many of his colleagues, is honorary chairman of this year's Pulaski Day Parade in New York and has been invited to a ceremonial audience with Pope John Paul II at the Vatican this summer. Yet, he said, he cannot receive Communion in his home state.

"The archbishop of Newark has made it clear that our presence is unwelcome at the altar," Lesniak said.

Kenny said that, at a meeting he arranged this weekend with his pastor, Msgr. Frank Del Prete, of SS. Peter and Paul Church in Hoboken, he asked whether he would be denied Communion because of his support for abortion rights and stem-cell research. Kenny said he was told he would be offered Communion one more time "but that then he would tell me not to come again."

"I will look for other options to express my faith and will probably join another Christian church," Kenny said.

"Under the church's position," he said, "the public could justifiably infer that the act of a public official taking Communion means they were following the directives of the church on policy issues."

A spokesman for the Archdiocese of Newark declined to comment on Kenny's decision.

Lesniak said it was "unconscionable" for Newark Archbishop John J. Myers to condone violating the separation of church and state. The church, he said, "ought to be trying to bring people together, not separate them."

"The last thing we need is a religious war in our own country," said Assemblyman Louis Manzo, a Democrat from Hudson County. "By resurrecting this issue, the church is making it harder for Roman Catholics to overcome the barriers that John Kennedy knocked down almost 50 years ago."

The church's stance was also questioned by U.S. Rep. Frank A. LoBiondo, a Republican Catholic from Vineland.

LoBiondo said the church had every right to aggressively assert its positions on issues, but it should not obligate Catholic politicians to vote a certain way.

Democrats are especially worried because the church has singled out members of their party, including McGreevey and Sen. John Kerry, the Democrats' presumptive presidential candidate.

Pascrell and others questioned why the church was targeting Democrats who support abortion rights while ignoring politicians who vote against church positions on issues such as unjust wars and the death penalty.

Some Catholic politicians said they did not want to be quoted for fear of antagonizing either voters or the church.

Analysts said the church's stance represents a political wild card in a highly urbanized, ethnic state such as New Jersey, where more than of half the voters are Catholic, as are a substantial portion of its local, state and federal officeholders.

New Jersey is one of the nation's most politically moderate states, with polls showing that three-quarters of voters favor abortion rights.

Surveys show that New Jersey Catholics support abortion rights by roughly the same overwhelming proportion, as do a great majority of Catholic officeholders in the state.

Some, however, said that passionate appeals from the pulpit could influence enough Catholics to affect the outcome of close elections.

The Democrats' most immediate concern is Kerry, who is running neck-and-neck with Bush in most public opinion polls. Several of this year's battleground states, including Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois and Michigan, have sizable numbers of Catholic voters.

McGreevey has endured a rocky first term and is considered highly vulnerable in his bid for a second term next year. A concerted challenge by church officials could hurt him in a close race.

McGreevey's landslide election in 2001 was attributed largely to his decision early in the campaign to highlight his views on abortion.

During the campaign, McGreevey's frequent references to his days as an altar boy and his Catholic faith helped him win the Catholic vote by a wide margin, even capturing the support of Catholics from more conservative, blue-collar areas.

"In a close race you can't afford to lose even 5 percent of the Catholic vote in this state," said David Rebovich, director of Political Science at Rider University.

Rebovich said pressure from the church could cause McGreevey and other Catholic politicians to change their positions on issues such as abortion, risking a loss of credibility with voters.

McGreevey, for one, said there would be no change in his positions.

The governor said he was "strongly and unequivocally" in favor of a woman's right to choose an abortion, adding that there was no place for government interference in what he said was "an intensely personal decision between the woman and her doctor."

Many said the church's position could deter Catholics from getting involved in politics.

"If the price of running for public office is a public scolding by your bishop, then many may choose not to run," said Thomas O'Neil, a past executive director of the state Democratic Party.

LoBiondo and Pascrell said the church was creating an untenable standard both for Catholic politicians and religious officials.

They noted that some issues are so complex that a lawmaker could be both in compliance and in violation of church doctrine on the same piece of legislation.

"It's difficult because on many issues there's not a hard and fast line on where people stand," LoBiondo said, noting that lawmakers generally support certain aspects of an issue or legislation while opposing others.

"Will a bishop or priest understand someone's voting record completely, and how are they going to make that decision in the Communion line?" LoBiondo said.

A Democratic state legislator, who asked not to be named, agreed, saying, "What are we going to do, have priests standing at the Communion rail with legislative indexes in their hands?"

McGreevey and Communion Articles


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: archbishopmyers; bernardkenny; billpascrell; bishop; catholicchurch; catholiclist; catholicpoliticians; catholicvote; catholicvoter; dems; galante; goodriddance; mccarrick; mcgreevey; myers; newjersey; nj; njpoliticians; raymondlesniak
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
said Kenny, a Democrat from Hudson County.

So "The State" is the ultimate "high authority" with these politicians. Just what EVERY good Communist believes.

21 posted on 05/09/2004 4:42:43 PM PDT by AmericaUnited (It's time someone says the emperor has no clothes.)
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To: Coleus
Another Catholic Democrat, U.S. Rep. William Pascrell Jr. of Essex County, said he "was not sent to Congress to follow the dictates of the Catholic Church. I have to represent everybody in my district. That's what democracy is all about."

I can't argue with him there. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. That's why our founding fathers abhorred democracy and setup a Constitutional Republic.

With that in mind, I would ask the Hon. Congressman Pascrell that if "everybody in his district" wanted to lower the legal age of consent to 7, would he comply, and if not, is it because of his moral conviction?

22 posted on 05/09/2004 4:45:10 PM PDT by randog (Everything works great 'til the current flows.)
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To: Stagerite
The secular matters that you refer to, in my opinion, just happen to be a big part of the Catholic church's rules and procedures. As stated before in this thread, if the Jersey politicians want to conveniently cling to the abortion issue, and are Catholic, then they can make a choice and stand by their decision by either staying in the church or finding another religion.

America is all about choices. This is no different; follow those rules and stay or break them and leave.

No one can have it both ways.

23 posted on 05/09/2004 4:47:05 PM PDT by tenthirteen
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To: Coleus
Lesniak said it was "unconscionable" for Newark Archbishop John J. Myers to condone violating the separation of church and state. "

You know, he's got a valid point here. The conscience, placed in a person by GOD to help them discern right from wrong, MUST be removed from the equation to let a person BOTH choose to murder an innocent unborn child AND place "The State" as a higher authority over God.

24 posted on 05/09/2004 4:50:41 PM PDT by AmericaUnited (It's time someone says the emperor has no clothes.)
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To: jackbill; Coleus
If you follow the rhetoric of secular humanist "Separation of Church and State" mythology, they seem to think that everything the Catholic Church prohibits on moral grounds should be legal ( to avoid imposing church teaching ). That would make murder, stealing, and rape legal because the church forbids them on moral grounds.

What they seem to have missed is that the Catholic position has been that ethical teachings of this type can be KNOWN and understood rationally and logically as part of natural law ethics. And, indeed, the non-Christian Hippocratic Oath prohibited abortion. Many non-Catholics also understand such practices to be morally wrong. Pro-life ethical philosophy is not exclusively Catholic. The NJ senator (Kenny) has completely misunderstood what is involved with these issues. Beyond that, "Separation of Church and State" is not in the Constitution. They are Jefferson's words in a private letter about a Baptist controversy in Virginia. One wonders where this Kenny fellow studied Law, History, and Philosophy. If he ever did.

25 posted on 05/09/2004 4:50:58 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Coleus
Good riddance to those politicians who treasure votes and political power over their immortal souls. Finally the bishops are beginning to get their attention. Bravo!
26 posted on 05/09/2004 4:51:10 PM PDT by conservativehistorian (.)
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To: Coleus; Barnacle; devolve
"Roman Catholic politicians in New Jersey, including one who left the church yesterday, are expressing anger at what they say is an attempt by church leaders to force them to decide between their government oaths and their religion."

Has Kerry quit yet?

27 posted on 05/09/2004 4:52:45 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (U.S.A. - - United We Stand - - Divided We Fall - - Support Our Troops - - Vote BUSH)
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To: Coleus; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp IV; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; ...
"I'm a Catholic and I greatly value my faith and draw great strength from it, but I also have a constitutional obligation as governor," McGreevey said in an interview Friday.

Sorry, Governor, you can't have it both ways! You can't be both "pro-choice" and "catholic".

Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list


28 posted on 05/09/2004 4:55:42 PM PDT by NYer (O Promise of God from age to age. O Flower of the Gospel!)
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To: AmericaUnited
The State" is the ultimate "high authority" with these politicians. Just what EVERY good Communist believes. 21 posted on 05/09/2004 4:42:43 PM PDT by AmericaUnited

Unfortunately, quite a few "liberal" Americans have been heading in this direction for quite some time. Statist totalitarianism doesn't necessarily need Lenin-bearded zanies in black turtlenecks or tanks of the Red Army to triumph. Sen. Kenny isn't the only nerdy liberal to fall into this sloppy type of thinking.

29 posted on 05/09/2004 4:57:32 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Coleus
"The archbishop of Newark has made it clear that our presence is unwelcome at the altar," Lesniak said.

Bingo!

30 posted on 05/09/2004 4:58:52 PM PDT by wrathof59 (semper ubi sub ubi)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
And abortion is their only sacrament!
31 posted on 05/09/2004 5:00:40 PM PDT by wrathof59 (semper ubi sub ubi)
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To: NYer
"I'm a Catholic and I greatly value my faith and draw great strength from it, but I also have a constitutional obligation as governor," McGreevey said in an interview Friday.

What on earth is he talking about? The constitution doesn't say that you have to be for "abortion rights." It doesn't say that you have to be for medical research on aborted stem cells. He needs work in constitutional law as well as catechism.

32 posted on 05/09/2004 5:02:39 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Coleus
Pascrell and others questioned why the church was targeting Democrats who support abortion rights while ignoring politicians who vote against church positions on issues such as unjust wars and the death penalty.

The religious formation of some of these "Catholic" politicians ought to constitute another scandal for the bishops. These so-called Catholics really don't understand the distinction between these issues under Catholic teaching, and don't even know where to find the right answer?

What's remarkable is that, with few exceptions, these folks truly are that benighted about Catholic teaching.

33 posted on 05/09/2004 5:04:04 PM PDT by Snuffington
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To: Snuffington
I meant to add that, far from leaving the Church, some of these folks were never "in" in the first place. That's quite obvious from their statements.
34 posted on 05/09/2004 5:05:21 PM PDT by Snuffington
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To: Coleus
He only left his Secondary religion...his First religion is Democrat!
35 posted on 05/09/2004 5:05:24 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: doug from upland
Well, now he has a choice: follow the dictates of his church when representing his constituency (and lose the election) or leave the church. Looks like he can't have it both ways anymore. Fish or cut bait.
36 posted on 05/09/2004 5:05:43 PM PDT by ladylib
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To: NYer
Sorry, Governor, you can't have it both ways! You can't be both "pro-choice" and "catholic".

No more than you can be pro-Satan and Catholic. Some beliefs take one outside the Church.

Astounding how ignorant of this fact marginal Catholics and the allegedly "too smart for belief in God" secular crowd are on this. It's about as fundamental as it can get.

37 posted on 05/09/2004 5:07:35 PM PDT by Snuffington
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To: Coleus; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Diago; eastsider; Romulus
That they would turn their backs on Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, turn their backs on His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, oh this tells us how far gone they are. They already left the Church. They have probably sailed well beyond Episcopalian way on out into whatever Hillary and the demon are serving up as official Religion these days with the murder of children as the central act of worship.
38 posted on 05/09/2004 5:08:48 PM PDT by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: wrathof59
And abortion is their only sacrament! 31 posted on 05/09/2004 5:00:40 PM PDT by wrathof59

For some feminazis that does seem to be the case. They wear it like a badge of honor. What they are unhappy with is nature itself. Women are designed to have children.

The prohibition on abortion is not some deep, mysterious, esoteric mystery of mystical theology. It is a reasoned position in ethics that this is an immoral and unlawful taking of a human life. In moral theology it is considered a very grave sin. In canon law it results in automatic excommunication. But many non-Catholics also acknowledge that it is wrong and should be unlawful. The evil of abortion can be seen in the tremendous emotional damage and suffering of the women and girls who have abortions. The population control ideology behind it is already imperiling the national security of many countries as in the much-discussed Islamicization of Europe.

40 posted on 05/09/2004 5:12:09 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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