Waiting for Lynndie’s side of the story (Since when is humiliation worse than mutilation?)

Charleston Daily Mail ^ | Friday May 07, 2004 | Don Surber

[van_erwin]

Unlucky Lynndie England. She is the girl in the photo aiming at the genitalia of naked inmates at Abu Ghraib prison.

A New York Times reporter ain't gonna write her autobiography. The state Democratic Party ain't gonna supply her with a lawyer named Goodwin. "People" magazine ain't gonna take her to White House Correspondents dinner.

Unlucky Lynndie is the anti-Jessica Lynch.

The latter is blonde, the former brunette. The latter wants to be a teacher, the former plucked chickens. The latter joined the Army to get a job, the former really wanted to be a soldier.

Look, I know what sort of column I am supposed to write. I am supposed to denounce Unlucky Lynndie.

Certainly, I do not like what I see in the photos.

It is as if the late Robert Mapplethorpe got another government grant, this time to visit Iraq.

But just as I could not bring myself to write a Jessica Lynch column a year ago, I cannot bring myself to denounce Unlucky Lynndie.

It is not a matter of not wanting to pile on. I can be as impolite as the next guy.

No, it is a matter of the truth. Just as tall tales of Jessica Lynch vaporized a year ago in the light of day, this story may have holes in it.

Lynch did not go down in a blaze of glory. Lynch did not have body parts amputated.

I am sure that Unlucky Lynndie and her fellow soldiers in the 372nd Military Police Company will be duly punished for their actions.

But let us get real about what those actions are. What we know today does not support the allegations by the Gazette of torture.

Sorry. Humiliation is not torture. Sleep deprivation is not torture. Lying to inmates is not torture.

Consider the words of "the man in the hood" as the (London) Independent described Hayder Sabbar Abd:

"Americans did not mistreat me in general. But these people must be tried.

"I can't tell you my feelings. The Americans got rid of Saddam Hussein. They told us about democracy and freedom. We are happy about that.

"Then (the soldiers) did this to the seven of us. I am asking, ‘Is that democracy, is that freedom'?"

The reports on Abu Ghraib prison began with Seymour Hersh, who copped a Pulitzer Prize for unveiling a real atrocity, My Lai in Vietnam. Since then Hersh has become a boy crying wolf about the American military.

Compared to the massacre at My Lai, this at its worse is schoolyard bullying.

One thing is clear: Intelligence officers were trying to extract information from these inmates.

This leads me to conclude that these inmates were not your average Iraqis. They were the bad boys.

I wonder how many of them tortured, raped and killed their countrymen at that very same Abu Ghraib prison.

As far as I know, no limbs were amputated to make the disgusting pictures we now see.

And I wonder just what sort of information was extracted from these inmates. I wonder what Sept. 11th was prevented because a few intelligence officers got the job done at Abu Ghraib.

How easy it is to dismiss Unlucky Lynndie.

The headline in the (London) Evening Standard said, "Trailer park girl turns into torturer."

Having spent time in London and six years living in trailer parks, I think an apology is due.

Just as inmates have their rights, so do corrections officers. I want to hear Unlucky Lynndie's side of the story before joining the parade.

Surber may be reached by e-mail at donsurber@dailymail.com.

[HairOfTheDog]

The Arab media and Islam mulla's are using this as a means to discredit the U.S

Yes. A predicable outcome of posing for smarmy pictures doing bizarre things. They might be used against us.

Anything to discredit this administration, which in turn discredits this country's effort to civilize and democratize the world.

They'll try, but who armed them with this kind of ammo?

And, the media has jumped on this with both feet because they dearly wish for the good old days of Vietnam and Watergate when they actually had credibility, in their own minds.

Of course.

It is how the Bush administration handles this which will make the difference in whether or not they win. And the answer is not to excuse the actions of the twits in the photos, but to do exactly what Rumsfeld is doing as we speak. Be accountable, be humble, and be the most proactive person looking to fix it.

[HairOfTheDog]

However, the abuse and humiliation are no doubt the brainchild some of our geniuses in the CIA and intelligence.

Quite a bit of doubt about that actually.... from the top. And I believe them.

[Wolfie]

If it was Dem in the White House, everybody on both sides would have the opposite opinion. Just more partisan BS. Its tiring.

[rintense]

It is as if the late Robert Mapplethorpe got another government grant, this time to visit Iraq.

I've said this from the get-go: if these photos were taken here in the US, they'd be considered 'art' by the left.

[HairOfTheDog]

The partisan BS I see here is the excuse-makers on this forum that think this is no big deal.

[Diamond]

Will one of you please tell me; Is Lynndie England the female who had sexual intercourse in front of those prisoners, and who is the one who was sent back to Fort Bragg because she was impregnated by her MP "boyfriend" in the prison? Furthermore, do you think such conduct, whether by her or some other female/male, is in compliance with the Uniform Code of Military Justice?

Cordially,

[Van Jenerette]

Unlucky Lynndie is the anti-Jessica Lynch. The latter is blonde, the former brunette. The latter wants to be a teacher, the former plucked chickens. The latter joined the Army to get a job, the former really wanted to be a soldier.

That's what the author calls a soldier!?

What U.S. Army was I in for nearly 24 years that I was a grunt in; meritorious promotion to NCO; commissioned an Infantry LT; etc? What Army? What U.S. Army was Ranger(CPL) Pat Tillman in? Would we have seen him doing something like this...ever?

Lynndie is no soldier...she's a REMF playing tough guy along with a bunch of other ill-disciplined pukes who are a disgrace to the uniform. Them and their chain-of-command need to be investigated and dealt with...the quicker the better...

Van Jenerette - www.jenerette.com

[wtc911]

Unlucky only in that she was born too stupid or immoral to know that what she was doing is wrong.

This idiot girl and her pals have done more to hurt our WOT than a trained regiment of Iraqi Republican Guard could have.

[FITZ]

Furthermore, this is WAR. War isn't pretty. War isn't nice. War isn't a neighborhood, child's soccer game.

I'm wondering if we've got the attitude to even have a war --- or if the hippies "make love, not war" has left such a permanent mark on us we might as well just have love-ins with our enemies. It's gotten past silly --- in WWII, I wonder how many Americans were ever concerned with the hurt feelings of the Nazi or Japanese prisoners of war or if we ever gave much thought to how the Germans felt about us whipping them which certainly had to be humiliation to the master race. We might as well join the French.

[FITZ]

even though the military has handled and is handling the problem as we write.

That isn't good enough anymore --- we're a very touchy-feely people now, we all want to wring our hands over these couple poor-judgement incidents.

[jimt]

This guy needs to read the report done by the Army.

The commanding officer of the 800th MP Brigade was astoundingly incompetent. The rot went down through the chain of command to the subject young woman.

The young woman should have known that this type of behavior was wrong. She shouldn't have participated in it.
However, if we're going to find her criminally liable, then BG Janis Karpinski should join her - only with a more severe punishment.

[sarasota]

I have no idea. In fact, I didn't hear that bit of info. I've tuned it out except for the threads here and as of 3 today, I'm taking the weekend off. Someone wake me when the "investigation" is complete and the punishment/compensation awarded. This whole thing has become a circus. Send in the clowns.

[appaloosa]

The current war has many fronts, the
psychological "front" is just as vital
as the physical confrontation. The
Media "Matrix's" attack here is psychological,
directed at undermining the American People's will to
fight this war.
We will see more of the same, We may in
fact see Muslim terrorists attempt further
atrocities on U.S. soil in order to "take
out" President Bush whom they rightly view
as the leader of opposition in the U.S.,
just as they correctly see DemoK-Ratiks
in government and the Media "Matrix" as their
allies.
Of course the Media "Matrix" puppet
masters have gone to great lengths to placate
and aid the enemy with complete disregard
to the safety and success of our soldiers.

The Media "Matrix" shows pictures of mutilated
Americans with commentary devoid of expressions of horror or outrage.
Contrast that with the emotionally laden commentary
that accompanies the prison pictures.

The Media "Matrix" will tell you whom to love and whom
to hate, whom to justify, and whom to condemn.
The Media "Matrix" whats nothing less that complete
control of your mind; your thoughts, your feelings,
your perceptions, and ultimately, your behavior.

The Media "Matrix" wants the power of God; to
create a world that conforms to its definition of
reality, truth, and justice.
Antonio Gramcci is well pleased.

Someone took those pictures and those pictures
were a means to an end.
I want to know who took the pictures,
I want to know the role of each person involved,
including these "Army Intelligence" personnel.
I want to know who gave these pictures to the Media
"Matrix". I want to know where the officers
were who were in command of the personnel
involved. If Army intelligence personnel were
in charge when the incidents depicted in the
photographs were taken, I want to know to what
intelligence purpose these pictures were taken.

Lets talk about this Hersh reporter/agent; his
intentions, his political agenda and his location
in Iraq.

[Eva]

I'm with you, who cares what happened to humiliate the terrorist prisoners? I have to wonder how many of them were actually Iraqis, or just fellow Jihadists from other countries. The behavior of the guards was disgraceful both personally and professionally, but not so much because of the way it made the prisoners feel, as because it was dishonorable.

[Maria S]

"Here is the funniest post on the Iraqi prison photos I have seen here in the past few days."


Thanks!! LOL!! We "older" women need a good laugh like that once in awhile.

[KangarooJacqui]

Compared to the massacre at My Lai, this at its worse is schoolyard bullying.

Too right. Why are the US (and British) forces all of a sudden the bad guys (and girls) in Iraq? UM, HELLO, PEOPLE, WE RID THE COUNTRY OF SADDAM HUSSEIN...

[Oztrich Boy]

Frankly, one gets that information however one can.

Any information obtained by interrogators with room-temp IQs will be worthless.

[elli1]

Is Lynndie England the female who had sexual intercourse in front of those prisoners,...

Whoa! Where did you hear or read that bit of info? I knew about the pregnant part, but not that.

[Parmy]

How do you know that?