I am starting to think going to Iraq was a mistake

MMI | 4/30/04 | MDP

[Check_Your_Premises]

As an avid supporter of the President's Iraq policies, the last few days have been difficult for me. The number of casualties seemed to reach a "critical mass" for me. I found myself simply not caring to sacrifice anymore of our brave soldiers for Iraqi independence and democracy. Screw 'em.

I was not sure why I began to feel this way. As I said I am an avid supporter of the plan to bring an oasis of freedom and liberty to the 12th century toilet that is the middle east. It seemed to me that if we are to end terrorism we have to destroy the sources, which are the failed states and ideology of that region.

Why not? We have succeeded at such things in the past. We transformed post war Germany and Japan into thriving and peaceful democracies. Unfortunately, we have also failed at such things in the past. Of course, I am speaking of the war that Teddy Kennedy's brother got us into.

The one problem I had with liberating Iraq from Saddam's clutches is that we were removing one of the most important steps to the forming of a successful democracy. The successful overthrow of tyranny is a process that produces the type of leaders that are required to bring the successful transition from tyranny to liberal democracy. By liberating Iraq, for the Iraqis we were not allowing their "Founding Fathers" to become. It is of course worth noting that such leaders may never have been produced.

It seems to me now that the war in Iraq suffers from the same fatal flaw as the war in Vietnam. I may be speculating here, but it seems we simply cared more than the South Vietnamese, that their nation remain free. No American should be expected to die defending the home of another not willing to do the same. In the same sense we seem to care more about the freedom of the Iraqi people than they do themselves. This is why I don't really care anymore. If they truly cared or understood their fate, they would be dying ten to our one. And in that case I think the American people would support them steadfastly. God knows I would.

So what was different about our success stories, Japan and Germany. Well we basically bombed the entire nation back into the stone age. I think their civilians were probably so glad that we weren't going to execute our own "final solution" to the "Japanese and German question", that they were willing to do whatever we said. It is also worth noting that in annhilating their armies we effectively removed any person who would be opposed to our efforts. As George Will put it recently, they "knew they were defeated".

So the question is if:
1) we care more about the freedom of the Iraqi people than they do (something we could only have known in hindsight), and
2)we are not willing to wage total war until all opposition is removed,

than how can we possibly win there?

Well I think you see where I am getting at. General Sherman would probably agree with me. However since we do not have the will to fight this way, it is clear that we cannot win until that fact changes. What could bring such a change of will about? Unfortunately, I think we are victims of our own success in preventing further terrorist attacks. Until every man, woman, child, and leftist acutely feels that they are in grave danger of death at the hands of these murderers, America will not be ready to do what she must to win this war.

Until we are ready, maybe we should hold off on any further "imperialist" adventures in the world's excretory regions.

Semper Fidelis

MDP

[bootyist-monk]

You have a house. It's a nice house. It has high walls that seperate you from your neighbors. All is well with the world. Then one day, you notices some roaches in your house. Just a few. You get out the Raid and take care of the problem. All is well again, until a couple of days later, the roaches have returned. This time their are more than before. You call in an exterminator. Spend the money, tent the house. Roaches gone. Until, a few days after you think you've saved your house, the infestation returns, in even stronger numbers. Frustrated, you go outside and notice that the roaches are coming over the wall. You look next door, and see the neighbor's house so full of roaches that they are flowing out of the windows and doors.

What do you do?

[kenth]

The poster who said 'perspective' is right. If my only thought was that it was for the betterment of the Iraqi people, then it would not be worth it. We spend way too many lives rescuing ungrateful nations from themselves, only to be looked down upon by those same people who now have the luxury of thinking freely. I think presenting the war in Iraq this way is a mistake. By trying to play upon the conscience of America, he set himself up for criticism caused by the inevitable failure of muslim society.

He should have bypassed the coddling of the left and the immature and only told the American public that Saddam needed to be removed, and in doing so a secondary war against terrorists would be waged on soil other than that of the United States.

[vandykelastone]

Way to go, way to go!! Thanks for the help. I can bash the canadians all by myself, but it's very nice to have company. Thanks again.

[John Lenin]

My thoughts are you have been brainwashed by the media.

[PISANO]

As long as our MILITARY is actively involved and there is ONE soldier, sailor, airman or Marine left in IRAQ, I will not waiver in my committment to them and the mission. We have lost 534 due to combat and their HONOR and MEMORY demands we do NOT!!

[Aggie Mama]

The only problem with that is the fact that the enemy will fight this war regaurdless of how focused we are.

This needs to be stated again and again. This fight was brought to us back in the 90's. We ignored it again and again, until 4 planes crashing made it impossible to ignore. They started, we will finish it. Bush has stated many times that this war will be unlike any other and it will take years if not decades to finish.

[WOSG]

On 24th March, 1945, the Lord Mayor of Aachen was assassinated by Werewolf agents. He was not the only US appointed official to die at the hands of the

---

okay but that was before the war was over.
did werewolf stay around until after WWII? ie May 1945?

It seems we think we are in 1946 Germany in Iraq,
but it's more like 1943, except we rolled in without a big fight and Hitler told all his goons "let them come in, and then we'll fight".

Did Werewolf kill any allied soldiers or politicians *after* June 1945????

[JesseHousman]

I am starting to think going to Iraq was a mistake,...

Me too.

I thought Cuber should have been knocked off first, then the unbelieveably corrupt Mexico, then assorted socialist states in South America.

Moving right along, I would then put Saudi Arabia, Iran and Syria out of business.

Then I would have given Saddam 24 hours to get the hell out of Iraq.

Russia and assorted African "nations" would be put on warning.

[kabar]

Get a grip on yourself. Buck up. 95% of Iraq is peaceful. We have been there for just a year. You are buying into the media cascade of gloom and doom. The latest issues of the draft, photographing caskets, Nightline, Iraqi polls, Vietnam analogies from Kennedy, Lautenberg, etc. are meant to influence the public's view of our involvement in Iraq. It is intended to build an antiwar movement that can defeat GWB in the Fall.

[JimRed]

My opposition to this war in Iraq...

The difference is that you are the LOYAL opposition. Our honest disagreements are based on concern for the good of our nation.

[ex-snook]

"How can an elected government like ours possibly make plans for a 30-year war "

If they thought it would be a 30-year war, they should be starting the draft.

[Light Speed]

Critical Mass..mmmhh..intersting.

Where you aware that after the French Tanker got blitzed in Yemeni waters..that Insurance rates for Tankers jumped from $150,000-$450,000 ..for a one way trip.
Oil cargo is a seperate Insurance reality also.
Noticed the gas prices at the pump...noticed inflation appearing at your local store for commodities?
Terror/extortion is destabilizing the worlds economy.
Muslim govs are interdicting to thwart attempts on Pipelines,Tankers and Terminals.
Jihadi have Fatwahed them for relationship with the Satans.

The world is being held together by Americas resolve....if She draws back..its game set and match for terror Islam.

Fiscal extortion is a powerfull force....Islam understands this well..just ask Papal Rome.

Critical Mass.....how about Tanker Insurance premiums at a cool Million per trip.

[PhilipFreneau]

>> I am starting to think going to Iraq was a mistake

I will forever believe going to war with Saddam, and terrorists, in general, is a good thing. My only disappointment so far is the lack of decisiveness on the part of our top military leadership (which includes the CINC). Members of the Islamic cult have no respect for timidity. Rather, they are emboldened by it, as we continually witness.

[Rocky]

We have to be there for the long haul. A year is not enough time to allow a new mindset. The June 30 date for turnover is important, but it doesn't mean we can walk away. Some Iraqis have exposed themselves to potential retribution from the radicals in order to try to start a new government in Iraq. We have to give them time to prove they can make it work.

[Alberta's Child]

[Incidentally, when you whine to the AM about my addressing you directly, try not to expose your immaturity to the rest of the forum.]

Please note that in nearly four years I have never complained to a moderator here about the content of someone's posts to me.

But perhaps you'd like to address my points specifically instead of yapping incoherently like that. I have found that comments along the lines of "socialist," "Canuck," etc. are usually devoid of any substance.

[LS]

There have been 13 major "insurgencies/insurrections" since 1945, most of them far better supported by the USSR than the Islamofascists are. Of these 13, the "government" has won 10. In other words, these inurgencies don't usually work . . . HOWEVER each of these took at least 5 years, and some 10, to win.

The natural yearning for every human heart is liberty, and the Iraqis are no different.

[Piranha]

Beautifully put, AF. I hope you repost this on other threads, as applicable.

[kinsman redeemer]

Thanks. You are precisely correct.

[highlandbreeze]

The problem is that there is a large majority of freepers that are not listening to the Generals IN the war. Instead, they would rather take the word of the media as the TRUTH.

I'm even more aghast at the response of the "vets" participating on these threads. You'd think they'd know better.

[Katya]

Okay, generally speaking I dont' give a @#%^ about that part of the world, and am not sure they are culturally able to deal with democracy. But....

I see this battle as the fly paper with which to catch the terrorists. They can't resist sending in reenforcements to do battle with us and I'd rather we battle there than here.