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I am starting to think going to Iraq was a mistake
MMI | 4/30/04 | MDP

Posted on 04/30/2004 9:16:18 AM PDT by Check_Your_Premises

As an avid supporter of the President's Iraq policies, the last few days have been difficult for me. The number of casualties seemed to reach a "critical mass" for me. I found myself simply not caring to sacrifice anymore of our brave soldiers for Iraqi independence and democracy. Screw 'em.

I was not sure why I began to feel this way. As I said I am an avid supporter of the plan to bring an oasis of freedom and liberty to the 12th century toilet that is the middle east. It seemed to me that if we are to end terrorism we have to destroy the sources, which are the failed states and ideology of that region.

Why not? We have succeeded at such things in the past. We transformed post war Germany and Japan into thriving and peaceful democracies. Unfortunately, we have also failed at such things in the past. Of course, I am speaking of the war that Teddy Kennedy's brother got us into.

The one problem I had with liberating Iraq from Saddam's clutches is that we were removing one of the most important steps to the forming of a successful democracy. The successful overthrow of tyranny is a process that produces the type of leaders that are required to bring the successful transition from tyranny to liberal democracy. By liberating Iraq, for the Iraqis we were not allowing their "Founding Fathers" to become. It is of course worth noting that such leaders may never have been produced.

It seems to me now that the war in Iraq suffers from the same fatal flaw as the war in Vietnam. I may be speculating here, but it seems we simply cared more than the South Vietnamese, that their nation remain free. No American should be expected to die defending the home of another not willing to do the same. In the same sense we seem to care more about the freedom of the Iraqi people than they do themselves. This is why I don't really care anymore. If they truly cared or understood their fate, they would be dying ten to our one. And in that case I think the American people would support them steadfastly. God knows I would.

So what was different about our success stories, Japan and Germany. Well we basically bombed the entire nation back into the stone age. I think their civilians were probably so glad that we weren't going to execute our own "final solution" to the "Japanese and German question", that they were willing to do whatever we said. It is also worth noting that in annhilating their armies we effectively removed any person who would be opposed to our efforts. As George Will put it recently, they "knew they were defeated".

So the question is if:
1) we care more about the freedom of the Iraqi people than they do (something we could only have known in hindsight), and
2)we are not willing to wage total war until all opposition is removed,

than how can we possibly win there?

Well I think you see where I am getting at. General Sherman would probably agree with me. However since we do not have the will to fight this way, it is clear that we cannot win until that fact changes. What could bring such a change of will about? Unfortunately, I think we are victims of our own success in preventing further terrorist attacks. Until every man, woman, child, and leftist acutely feels that they are in grave danger of death at the hands of these murderers, America will not be ready to do what she must to win this war.

Until we are ready, maybe we should hold off on any further "imperialist" adventures in the world's excretory regions.

Semper Fidelis

MDP


TOPICS: War on Terror; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: dnctalkingpoints; drsmith; imperialism; iraq; iraqaftermath; ohwoeisme; quackmire; quagmire; weakkneed; weredoomedisay
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To: Check_Your_Premises
Look at the BIG Picture..............
41 posted on 04/30/2004 9:29:37 AM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ...( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: Check_Your_Premises
Ah, the cry for instant gratification.

War isn't a video game and it isn't a 30 minute drama. Be greatful you weren't born in the 20s. You couldn't have handled WWII.

42 posted on 04/30/2004 9:29:49 AM PDT by Redleg Duke (Stir the pot...don't let anything settle to the bottom where the lawyers can feed off of it!)
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To: tiamat
"This is not a conscripted military. They all want to be there, they all want to do their jobs and they all know the risks."

Thank goodness our soldiers have much more courage and patience than those who think we have surrendered in Falluja and lost the war this morning.

43 posted on 04/30/2004 9:29:51 AM PDT by No Blue States
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To: abc1
I don't think we are nation building. I understood what W meant when he said he didn't want to be a nation builder.

This is a case of, "You break it, you bought it." We should help them put things back together.

44 posted on 04/30/2004 9:30:04 AM PDT by gogeo (Short and non offensive)
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To: Check_Your_Premises
Res Firma Mitescera Nescit.

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(Once You Get It Up - Keep It Up!)

45 posted on 04/30/2004 9:30:16 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,Election '04...It's going to be a bumpy ride,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø)
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To: Check_Your_Premises
"critical mass"?

Thankfully you had no command and control during WWII. Pearl Harbor would have both got us into the war and got us out - on the same day.

46 posted on 04/30/2004 9:30:27 AM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (I am in school, studying and working 10-12 hours a day. So you might not get a response quickly.)
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To: cripplecreek
Fine.

In my opinion, every member of the U.S. military should have been brought home on the day that the same U.S. Congress that couldn't agree on how to finance the war effort somehow managed to get almost unanimous support for a national "Do Not Call" bill that protected the U.S. population from the hideous threat of -- get this -- f#%&ing telemarketers.

47 posted on 04/30/2004 9:30:43 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Check_Your_Premises
Interesting perspective, I also have been feeling this way relative to your following quote
No American should be expected to die defending the home of another not willing to do the same.
This is what pisses me off, the Iraqis dont seem to be willing to stand up for themselves.
48 posted on 04/30/2004 9:31:06 AM PDT by Moleman
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To: Check_Your_Premises
Call Airbag America; they will be so glad to hear from you.
49 posted on 04/30/2004 9:31:25 AM PDT by vandykelastone (I'm so glad Goober Pyle is the Governor of New Mexico, aren't you?)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
Here's a fast moving thread..................

care to get on board?
50 posted on 04/30/2004 9:31:26 AM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ...( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: biblewonk
I think the fight for liberty in a country can take years. If you're ready to give up within 12 months or so, then feel free to support John Kerry -- you'll find many like-minded people in his camp.

I don't mean to sound churlish, but it's hard for me to deal with the idea of handing our enemies a victory -- it won't happen while George W. Bush is President, thank heaven.
51 posted on 04/30/2004 9:31:34 AM PDT by 68skylark (.)
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To: Check_Your_Premises
We are in day three of a 30 year war. We just do not know yet how well or how badly it is going.

I know one thing. I would rather we fight them there, than here.

Buck up, it is going to be a long pull with lots of ups and downs.

52 posted on 04/30/2004 9:32:18 AM PDT by ChipShot
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To: Check_Your_Premises
History repeats itself, Our soldiers will be victorious as they were in Germany after the "War".

The Werwolf is thought to have had about 5,000 members. Both the British and Americans were attacked by them. Major John Poston, who had been with Field Marshal Montgomery in the desert, in Sicily and in northwest Europe, and served as a liaison officer for the field marshal, was ambushed in his jeep and killed. On 24th March, 1945, the Lord Mayor of Aachen was assassinated by Werewolf agents. He was not the only US appointed official to die at the hands of the partisans, but he was the most important. The Commander of the 3rd Armored Division, General Maurice Rose, was allegedly assassinated by Werewolf agents in Padeborn.

Radio Werwolf bragged that "the arm of the National Socialist Party was long and that its agents, the Werwolf, were vigilant, ruthless killers." The radio station broadcast a call to arms claiming itself to be the organization of National Socialist Freedom Fighters. The radio station vowed that the Werwolf would never bow to the enemy and would employ every means to damage the enemy. Perhaps more important, the radio station told the German people that the Werwolf was employing its own judicial system to decide the life and death of German traitors.

53 posted on 04/30/2004 9:32:26 AM PDT by #1CTYankee
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To: Redleg Duke
More proof of a Oprah-like society.

Navel gazing, to the max.
54 posted on 04/30/2004 9:32:39 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: Redleg Duke
Be greatful you weren't born in the 20s. You couldn't have handled WWII.

I agree. War isn't for those who want to cut and run when things don't go perfect.

55 posted on 04/30/2004 9:32:50 AM PDT by 68skylark (.)
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To: Check_Your_Premises
The whole point is that Iraq had threatened Israel with the Rain of Fire. The action in Iraq has been successful to the extent that Israel has not yet been forced to the point of nuclear war.
56 posted on 04/30/2004 9:33:00 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: Check_Your_Premises
Casualties have reached "critical mass"?! We've lost just over 700 since the Iraq campaign began. As I recall, there were over 3000 lost at Omaha Beach alone on June 6th, 1944. Check premises? You need to check your perspective.
57 posted on 04/30/2004 9:33:03 AM PDT by Redcloak (Have you hugged your tagline today?)
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To: Check_Your_Premises
The emery can never hope for a military victory. Instead they are trying to create a political one by targeting our soldiers. Those young people are being killed for no other purpose than to make you think what do. Also South Vietnam didn’t fall until sometime after we left. They may very well have survived if congress hadn’t turned their backs on them.
58 posted on 04/30/2004 9:33:30 AM PDT by Red Dog #1
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To: Alberta's Child
If you are Alberta's child, I suggest you get your useless butt back to Alberta. Toot sweet, as they say in canada.
59 posted on 04/30/2004 9:33:50 AM PDT by vandykelastone (I'm so glad Goober Pyle is the Governor of New Mexico, aren't you?)
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To: WOSG
You should go take a look at the Falluja thread. There is a whole lot of defeatism over there. And of few of them are even on this thread. I see the propaganda machine is beginning to win.
60 posted on 04/30/2004 9:33:59 AM PDT by highlandbreeze (....that others may live.)
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