Marines Want Their .45s Back

StrategyPage.com ^ | April 23, 2004

[Cannoneer No. 4]

April 23, 2004: The U.S. Marine Corps is looking for a new .45 caliber (11.4mm) pistol. While the American military retired the M1911 .45 caliber in 1985, some commando units still prefer it. This is because the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) bullet weighs twice as much as the 9mm one that replaced it and still has an edge in "stopping" someone hit with it. But the 9mm M9 pistol magazine carries 15 rounds, versus seven in the M1911. The commandos (Special Forces, SEALs, Marine Force Recon) counter that their operations are the type where every round counts, and the fewer you have to fire the better. For the regular troops, the M9 has been popular, and successful. The 9mm weapon is lighter, has less recoil and has the extra ammo for users who are not sharpshooters.

The Marines want to buy 1,100 new .45 caliber pistols and are having a competition to determine which of several models available will get the $1.9 million contract. The Marines have been using M1911s rebuilt from the many old ones turned in when everyone switched to the M9. But even this supply is running out, and it is known that there are newer .45 caliber designs out there that are more reliable, lighter, easier to repair and more accurate. Some Marines (and other troops) buy these newer .45 caliber weapons with their own money. Most American combat units tolerate troops bringing in some additional weapons, especially pistols. Some troops have been buying 10mm pistols, seeing this as a nice cross between the lighter weight of the M9 (2.55 pounds versus three for the .45) and the greater stopping power of the 11.4mm M1911 bullet. But there are new .45 models that weigh as much as the M9, carry more bullets (10) and are easier to repair than the M1911.

Afghanistan also raised the issue of stopping power once more, when individual troops went into caves or other tight places, where only a pistol could be used. In these cases, every shot counted, and the guy firing larger (like 11.4mm instead of 9mm) bullets was more likely to win. But most troops agree that any arguments over pistols is minor compared to issues involving all the other more frequently used weapons and bits of equipment. Nevertheless, there's something about pistols…

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Battle of Bud Bagsak

Jolo, Sulu, Philippines

June 11-15, 1913

The four-day battle was personally led by U.S. Brigadier General John "Black Jack" J. Pershing of the 8th Infantry and Philippine Scouts against Moro resistance fighters armed mostly with kris, barongs, spears and few guns. In many other battles in the Morolands, the brave Moro fighters were proven to be unstoppable by the 0.38 caliber pistol and other rifles which led the Americans to invent the more powerful U.S. Army Colt 0.45 caliber pistol.

[cmsgop]

WOW!

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I thought the female MP's got the M11.

[GrandEagle]

Would you happen to know why a Springfield Mil-Spec Light Weight would fail to fire the last round?
Don't have any idea on this one? Was the round fully chambered? If you had a faulty mag (either in design or function) it could cause the last round not to chamber fully.

It would also fail to lock back after firing the last round.
The most likely suspect for this one is either a faulty mag or (forgive my lack of a technically accurate word for this piece), the little pin gadget on the slide that detects an empty mag.

Sometimes you just get a faulty firearm too. The last one I bought was a "Rock Island Armory". A fairly inexpensive firearm (around $350.00) that I could carry without worrying about taking a huge loss if it got stolen. The thing is made in the Philippines and is supposed to be a Springfield lower with an old left over G.I. slide. Seemed like a good idea.
Turned out to be the worse sidearm I've ever purchased. Won't fire a single mag without failing to fully load at least one of the rounds. Not sure what I'm going to do with it.
I've got 3 other .45's. A Colt Officers model (Series 80), a Colt 1911 A1, and a Springfield 1911 A1 stainless. All of these have fired many rounds flawlessly with only one exception. I had one bad mag that caused the same problem you had with the slide not locking back after the last shot.

[GrandEagle]

Would you happen to know why a Springfield Mil-Spec Light Weight would fail to fire the last round?
Don't have any idea on this one? Was the round fully chambered? If you had a faulty mag (either in design or function) it could cause the last round not to chamber fully.

It would also fail to lock back after firing the last round.
The most likely suspect for this one is either a faulty mag or (forgive my lack of a technically accurate word for this piece), the little pin gadget on the slide that detects an empty mag.

Sometimes you just get a faulty firearm too. The last one I bought was a "Rock Island Armory". A fairly inexpensive firearm (around $350.00) that I could carry without worrying about taking a huge loss if it got stolen. The thing is made in the Philippines and is supposed to be a Springfield lower with an old left over G.I. slide. Seemed like a good idea.
Turned out to be the worse sidearm I've ever purchased. Won't fire a single mag without failing to fully load at least one of the rounds. Not sure what I'm going to do with it.
I've got 3 other .45's. A Colt Officers model (Series 80), a Colt 1911 A1, and a Springfield 1911 A1 stainless. All of these have fired many rounds flawlessly with only one exception. I had one bad mag that caused the same problem you had with the slide not locking back after the last shot.

[GrandEagle]

Sorry about the dreaded DOUBLE POST.

[Airborne Longhorn]

Whoa, Nellie!

Tell us about this one! Now!!

[Warlord David]

"The contract would include everything from the writing of the requirements, building a detailed specification for the design, competing the different designs, selecting the winner, testing the new weapon in operational tests, logistic support packages, training, documents, etc. If we are going for a design that takes new ammo into the system, then we have to buy ammo for everybody."

Geeezzzzzzz, Can't the miltary buy their weapons like everybody else, instead of making it more complicated than it has to. I can see if their buying a new weapon, but a 45, give the Marines a break!!!!!!!! This does not require rocket science.

[Airborne Longhorn]

Yes, sir, please...

[Airborne Longhorn]

Muchissimas gracias!

[USMCBOMBGUY]

Why we left them, (1) inaccurate after a few rounds (2) higher maintenance cycle (3) lots of power, little penetration (4) Low velocity (5) cost of weapon (6) low mag capacity.

Huge money has been spent to develop the perfect pistol and round for it. It will never exist. It all depends on the application. Yes it is true that people have survived being shot with a 9mm. So have many from the .45 You need to look at the 45 in comparison, not just the 9mm by itself. The 45 has huge knock down up close, thats it....9mm is higher velocity and has more penetration on soft targets. Neither one scores very well when put up against even moderate body armor. As for how many rounds, it does matter, I am very fast at Mag changes, but I would rather not, also I can carry about half the mags for the same amount of ammo! Don't get me wrong, I love my 45, but its day is done, I carry mine here at home, where It will do me well. On the job, give me something that I have options with, accuracy, penetration, range, knockdown, high capacity, durability.

Answere SIG 357

The feds are going to it, and I want it.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

ping

[get'emall]

I have a Springfield .45. I'd recommend it to anyone.

Anyone on OUR side, that is.

[Airborne Longhorn]

Jack, thanks again.

I've gotta believe that the longer barrel improves accuracy. Fair assessment?

[Khurkris]

Guys...this ain't rocket science. .45acp Colts work! Learn to use and maintain them and they will do what is necessary. The debate is ridiculous.