Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?

Kerry's PDF Military Files on his Website ^ | 4-15-04 | me

[moondoggie]

How come the paperwork on Kerry's Bronze Star Award is signed by John Lehman, Sec. of the Navy????

In addition, the date Lehman (supposedly) signed it is not on the document.

Did Kerry not get the award when Chaffee was Secretary of the Navy? If not, why not?

Did Kerry get the award 15 years late?

Or is the paperwork a "sham" and somebody made a big booboo?

I'll post the document as soon as I find it again. Maybe somebody here has it bookmarked? And, if there's already been a thread on this that I missed....please direct me to the proper thread.

Thanks!

[Howlin]

I am just saying that you cannot throw stones when living in a glass house.

Just so I'll know you have it straight: George W. Bush has not mentioned ONE WORD about John Kerry's service in the military, NOR his own.

John Kerry made this a big deal by continually claiming to be a war hero; and now he doesn't have the "paper" to back it up.

I see no reason why WE shouldn't be as demanding as THEY were.

Unless, of course, you believe that lies should stand unchallenged.

[Howlin]

Let's not forget that John O'Neill says that John Kerry is wearing a flight jacket he is not entitled to.

[Howlin]

I have not looked, but I have been told that that "document" has now been removed from the Kerry web site.

[Parthalan]

Commish said
I have been in the AF for 22 years, all my awards are one certificate, signed by (As you said) the awarding authority for that Award.


and the point that I made earlier was that if you were to lose or burn the citation that awarded the medals to you the replacement citation would be a copy of the original not a new citation signed by a SECNAV that served 12 years after your discharge.

[mtntop3]

"Another account of the same event:The Long War of John Kerry Admiral Elmo Zumwalt later joked that he wasn’t sure if he should give Kerry the Silver Star or court-martial him for his actions on February 28, 1969. Kerry had ignored standard operating procedure as his squadron ferried troops up the river that day."

Pertinent. This is from a gooey piece in The New Yorker but info pops up everywhere....

[Howlin]

he always could have qualified on a up to date plane and flown in active duty service if he had chosen to do so

At last we see what your problem is; you are spouting off about things of which you know nothing.

[Howlin]

Kerry evidently didn't want to go that badly either: he tried to get his induction delayed by a year so he could go "study" in Europe; France, no doubt; and hoping he'd be passed over, no doubt.

[Howlin]

the replacement citation would be a copy of the original not a new citation signed by a SECNAV that served 12 years after your discharge.

Move to the head of the class.

[texasbluebell]

This whole thing smells fishier than 3-day-old mackerel.

No way is that Chaffee's signature.

Someone posted on another thread today (maybe it's on this one, haven't finished reading yet) that all 3 of JF'nK's Purple Hearts were awarded on the same date.

How does that happen? I thought they're to be awarded at the time of the incident? Am I mistaken?

[BlueNgold]

OK, nothing to see here ...
Pick a better battle.

Lehman signed the Combat Distinguished Service Device, a clarification of the Bronze Star. Zumwalt signed the actual Medal.

My guess is that as he prepared to enter public servce Mr. Kerry reviewed his records and petitioned the Navy to amend his B-Star. Happens ALL the time. This is a losing battle, don't get caught out in the weeds.

[FR_addict]

"He died of Agent Orange related cancer."

My Dad was in WWII, Korean War, and Vietnam. When he died, we found his medals and citations. These were received prior to Vietnam. He never talked about them.

I'm sure my Dad's death was partly due to Agent Orange too. He had the cloracne on his skin, attributable to Agent Orange. He died of congestive heart failure and poor circulation. From what I understand, in Nam he was in charge of the warehouses where Agent Orange was being stored. I don't think he was part of any combat. By that time he wasn't a young man. He had been a navigator when he was younger.

[deport]

If you want to do battle, Bush vs. Kerry, military service is a poor choice of a battleground.

---

I don't disagree with that at all..... There are ample records of Kerry as a politican in which to discredit him or his beliefs without the military ever being brought out. But it's Kerry that is touting his record and the democrats that are trashing the President's..... The record that I posted and you are referring to is being promoted on his campaign web site.... That is where it came from......

[Robert A Cook PE]

No!

John Lehman signed the third version of Kerry Silver Star citation. Lehman did NOT sign "the Combat Distinguished Service Device, a clarification of the Bronze Star. Zumwalt signed the actual Medal."

Zumwalt signed the original Silver Star citation.

The first version was signed by Zumwalt, who was, legitimately and correctly Kerry's commander as Commander, US Naval Forces Vietnam when Kerry served.

The second version was signed (years later) by Admiral John Hyland. Hyland was CINCPACFLT, Nimitz's job in WWII and the third highest navy officer ranking possible.

The third version (same Silver Star award, for the same 28 February action) was signed by John Lehman in the mid-80's after Kerry was elected Senator. (Significantly, after Kerry had enough power in WAshington to get the SecNAV to change the records. Again.)

Finally, Kerry went back in March 2001 to get 4 bronze stars added to his Vietnam Service medal award. He did this by forcing the DOD to add a DD215 revision to the original 70's era DD214 Discharge record.

Now, you tell me why Kerry wants to keep re-writing his 30 year old records.

[BlueNgold]

I haven't had the time to look at the Silver Star yet.
The bronze star is all I am discussing. I will get more time later.

Lehmen only signed the combat device, which is a relatively minor revision (The B-Star is a combat medal to start with), and it does in fact happen all the time. I've spent time (years) as a command administrative officer (Collateral duty to my primary warfare assignment)... trust me - the paperwork shown on the Bronze star is in order, normal, and approved.

I repeat .. pick a better battle - this one is a losing proposition. Kerry has enough BS floating around him that people don't need to get fcused on the wrong issues.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Respectfully, I disagree.

15 years after Vietnam, why would a Senator go back to the Secretary of the Navy to re-write and re-sgin a medal citation that had already been awarded, already been approved by and signed by Admiral Zumwalt, and later revised and re-written and signed by CINCPACFLT?

Why would Kerry demand the Navy brass spend their time changing his own medal citations?

[rwfromkansas]

good question.

[kabar]

Lehman signed the Combat Distinguished Service Device, a clarification of the Bronze Star. Zumwalt signed the actual Medal

Not so fast. How do you know that the Lehman signing the Bonze Star citation was done to add the Combat "V" ? It was already stated in the Zumwalt citation that "Lieutentant (junior grad) KERRY is authorized to wear the Combat "V".

Why did Lehman also sign the Silver Star Citation? No mention of a combat device is needed.

[hobson]

I compiled this quickly so if there are any errors please let me know.

Date	Medal	Action	Wound	Treatment
12/2/1968	Purple	According to Kerry's own description in Douglas Brinkley's Tour of Duty, the Dec. 2, 1968, mission behind what he has claimed to be his first Purple Heart was "a half-assed action that hardly qualified as combat."	slightly wounded on his arm, "Shrapnel in left arm above elbow. "He had a little scratch on his forearm, and he was holding a piece of shrapnel," Mr. Hibbard said.	Shrapnel removed and appl[ied] bacitracin dressing. Ret[urned] to duty."
2/20/1969	Purple	Kerry and crew involved in combat PCF 94 came under intense hostile A/W and rocket fire	shrapnel wound in his left thigh	Condition good, prognosis good, presence of NOK is not medically warrented. Treated by MO aboard USCGC Wachusetts and returned to duty with coastal division.
2/28/1969	Silver	Admiral Elmo Zumwalt later joked that he wasn’t sure if he should give Kerry the Silver Star or court-martial him for his actions on February 28, 1969. Kerry had ignored standard operating procedure as his squadron ferried troops up the river that day. (beached PCF, twice)  And this statement was made despite the fact Zumwalt had personally pinned a Silver Star on Mr. Kerry.	No wound	Commendation signed by Lehman Commendation signed by Zumwalt
3/13/1969	Bronze and Purple	Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his safety, he pulled the man aboard.	his arm bleeding and in pain and The Personnel Casualty Report from that day says Mr. Kerry "suffered shrapnel wounds in his left buttocks and contusions on his right forearm when a mine detonated close aboard" his boat. Another Source But the citation for the Bronze Star that he was awarded for the same action described "his arm bleeding and in pain," saying nothing about arm bruises or shrapnel wounds anywhere.	Condition good, prognosis good, presence of NOK is not medically warrented. Treated by Medical Officer aboard USCGC Spencer, returned to duty with coastal division eleven.

[rwfromkansas]

Wouldn't be surprised if it has. Anybody know for sure and have a copy of the original PDF?

I have been too busy to save these onto my hard drive. I hope they don't disappear before tomorrow.