Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?

Kerry's PDF Military Files on his Website ^ | 4-15-04 | me

[moondoggie]

How come the paperwork on Kerry's Bronze Star Award is signed by John Lehman, Sec. of the Navy????

In addition, the date Lehman (supposedly) signed it is not on the document.

Did Kerry not get the award when Chaffee was Secretary of the Navy? If not, why not?

Did Kerry get the award 15 years late?

Or is the paperwork a "sham" and somebody made a big booboo?

I'll post the document as soon as I find it again. Maybe somebody here has it bookmarked? And, if there's already been a thread on this that I missed....please direct me to the proper thread.

Thanks!

[kabar]

Unlike what several have said, "replacing" medals (which was NEVER done in any case, since Kerry still has his original medals!) does NOT require re-writing and changing the original official citation! Further, there is no reason to "replace" the citation - since the original is obviously available - and always HAS BEEN available!)

You don't know if Kerry actually has his original medals. If he did, then why have new citations issued? The citations were not changed except for one sentence and both copies are provided by Kerry for everyone to see. And unless you know the administrative procedures to receive replacement medals or ones that were never issued, I don't know on what basis you can state categorically that providing medals many years after the fact doesn't require the current Secretary of the Navy to approve them.

[Robert A Cook PE]

OH HE*LLLLL! I'm wrong!!!"

Kerry didn't get his Silver Star citation rewritten and enhanced and re-issued after the fact twice.

HE GOT THE SAME CITATION RE-WRITTEN and RE-ISSUED THREE TIMES!!!!

And each time, by an ever-higher step in the Navy brass!

First Issue: Silver Star, written under the authority of "Commander, United States Naval Forces Vietnam, signed "E. R. Zumwalt, Vice Admiral, USN". (Zumwalt WAS commander of Naval Forces in Vietnam while Kerry served there.) We have the original citation for the Silver Star for action 28 February, 1969. No "copy lost"; no "fire", no "replacement medal." I'm reading the original copy, it is clear, it has all the right words, but does indeed "damn with the faintest of praise.".

Second Issue: Silver Star, written under the authority of "Commander in Chief, United States Pacific Fleet, signed "John Hyland, Admiral, USN." (Hyland was commander, PACFLT long after Kerry left service. Kerry never served under him.) We have the original citation for the Silver Star for action 28 February, 1969. No "copy lost"; no "fire", no "replacement medal." I'm reading the original copy: it is now re-typed, is shorter with fewer details, but summarized things more enthusiastically. It is manually typed in italics font.

Third Issue: Silver Star, written under the authority of "The Secretary of the Navy, Washington, signed "John Lehman." (Lehman was Secretary of the Navy under Reagan, some 15 years after Kerry left service, but was active when Kerry was elected Senator from MA.) We have the original citation for the Silver Star for same action on 28 February, 1969. No "copy lost"; no "fire", no "replacement medal." I'm reading the original copy: it has re-typed yet again, and has continued to get more enthusiastic about Kerry's performance that day.

Separately, in March 2001, Kerry's official discharge papers (DDForm 214) are modified with a DD Form 215 awarding him more recognitions for service in Vietnam, and giving him 4 "new" Bronze "campaign ribbon decorations."

[Robert A Cook PE]

See my comments (Kerry got three re-writes!) in nbr 363.

[kabar]

We began this discussion by talking about getting replacement medals. You indicated that you could buy them in the Exchange. The citation authorizes the wearing of the medal. The official medal is provided in a presentation case and is manufactured for the USG according to certain specifications. Knock off medals aren't the same.

There is no significant difference between the citations signed by Lehman and Hyland and Zumwalt excpt for one sentence on the Silver Star citation, which could just be new boilerplate. It needs to be questioned. This is a non-issue as far as I am concerned. The real question is why there is need for a second citation signed by Lehman for both the Silver and Bronze Stars. We posit, but don't know, that it is part of the administrative procedures for replacement medals. Kerry claims that he has his original medals. The plot thickens.

I also wonder why Kerry felt it necessary to update his DD214 in March 2001.

[streetpreacher]

Deployment is considered active duty.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Based on how long he was there, how could he actually have served in 4 different campaigns? I mean, if he get's on campaign star for when he was off the coast on the Gridley, that's all fine and good. I can live with that. THen, he get's in-country in what? November of 1968? Great - he's just in time for Vietnamese Counteroffensive Phase VI which was from 2 November 2 1968 through 22 February 1969. Ok, that's two... So, he was there for part of Tet 69/Counteroffensive which was from February 23 through roughly June 8 1969 but he left before the end of that, but that would be a third...

So, where does the fourth one come from? Anyone know? I are confu-sed.

[MJY1288]

I have my fathers original medals and I ordered replacement medals for a "Medals Plaque" and there is no difference between them. The originals are not stamped or numbered. All the Military does is contract companies to make the medals. The medals are symbolic, the Citations tell the story.

In my opinion, ANY alterations to the original wording of his Citations is a distortion and IMHO, makes the Citations WORTHLESS

[kabar]

I am using the link below for the Silver Star citations signed by Hyland and Lehman. I don't have the Zumwalt copy, but it is quite possible that the chain of command for approval for a Silver Star goes up to Hyland for final approval. It could be reworked at that level It is not unusual to have awards take a long time to process, especially in Vietnam. I knew I had received an award for my service in Vietnam, but I didn't receive it until well into my next tour. It should also be noted that there is the actual write up for the award, which is more lengthy and then the citation synopsis, which can be put on one page.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/Silver_Star.pdf

[MJY1288]

Good points and observations

[kabar]

So, where does the fourth one come from? Anyone know? I are confu-sed.

It could have been related to his service on the Gridley, which did some operating in the theater.

[rogator]

"The Bronze Star medal and the small bronze star device associated with the VietNam Service Medal are two entirely different things."

These ("the small bronze star device associated with the VietNam Service Medal") are normaly referred to as "bronze service stars",not "bronze stars".

[Chad Fairbanks]

Which is number 1 of the 3 I could guess at. Now, what is number 4 for?

[kabar]

In my opinion, ANY alterations to the original wording of his Citations is a distortion and IMHO, makes the Citations WORTHLESS

You are entitled to your opinion, but the one that counts belongs to SecNav.

[MJY1288]

So you think it's OK for a Sec of the Navy to change the wording of a citation 15 years later?

I don't give a rats ass if Jesus H. Christ came down from the heavens himself and enhanced the wording of John Kerry's Citations, it's still wrong

[FR_addict]

This is so. The Hyland and Lehman (Slver Star) certificates use glowing language: the phrase "Extraordinary daring and personal courage.."(of Kerry)is used. But the Zumalt (Silver Star) certificate is markedly restrained and subdued in language relative to the other two; and it does not contain this phrase.

Thanks for pointing this out. It does sound suspicious.

[William Tell]

Robert A. Cook, PE said: Separately, in March 2001, Kerry's official discharge papers (DDForm 214) are modified with a DD Form 215 awarding him more recognitions for service in Vietnam, and giving him 4 "new" Bronze "campaign ribbon decorations."

The issue, I think, is not that Kerry is not entitled to the campaign ribbon decorations ( in my post above I suggest that Naval personnel may have qualified along with Army ground forces if stationed on a river) but rather the issue is "why" did Kerry file to amend his DD214?

Perhaps those of us entitled to such campaign ribbon decorations should all file amendments to our DD214s in order to guage what the response of the military would be. Are there any FR Vets who have DD214s which list campaign ribbon decoration information?

One might be very curious to know just what process was carried out to verify Kerry's amended DD214. Were the assignments of the ship on which Kerry served in the Tonkin Gulf verified through official records? Were specific Naval personnel entitled to inclusion in an Army campaign? Or did the military just take Kerry's word for what should appear on his DD214?

How can Kerry complain about the cost of government if he has single-handedly added to military expenses through these various processes? Was he charged a fee for these things? Perhaps he was. Was that money better spent than on Kerry's various liberal causes?

[kabar]

Kerry was on the Gridley from 8 Jun 67 to 20 July 68. I don't know when he was in theater, but the additional service star could be related to his service there. I would have to check to see what was included. I served in country Jul 67 to Jul 68 and off shore for 8 months 1965-6. I had five stars.