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Flight Not Fight (more whiny liberals threaten to leave U.S.)
www.zwire.com ^ | 4/2/04 | By Joy Lanzendorfer, AlterNet

Posted on 04/15/2004 12:55:26 PM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines

Joanna Harmon is considering whether to leave the United States for Canada. Nik and Nancy Phelps practically have visas in hand to set up business in Belgium. Joan Magit and her husband are eyeing Vancouver. Amy Gertz moved to the United States from Canada two and a half years ago – she's now moving back.

These are scary times for progressive Americans. Many feel isolated and embarrassed by the actions of our government. Some are downright terrified at what will happen if Bush is re-elected in November. When politics get too bleak, it's comforting to remind ourselves that we can always move to another country. But how many of us are serious about it?

News sources from CNN to Salon.com to The Daily Show have run pieces about Americans supposedly leaving the United States for other parts of the world. Even some celebrities were rumored to be leaving the U.S. Johnny Depp did – he lives in France. Alec Baldwin, Robert Altman, and Eddie Vedder allegedly threatened to leave if Bush was elected in 2000 (though Baldwin later denied ever saying any such thing).

There certainly has been a lot of talk. But is that all it is – talk?

If Americans are leaving the United States, Canada is certainly one of the most convenient places to go. It may be a little chilly at times, but it's right across the border and most Canadians speak English. Many of the major issues that divide people and political parties in the U.S. seem resolved in Canada. They have a lower crime rate, universal health care, and reportedly better education. Their medical doctors can dispense marijuana and last year they decided to officially recognize same-sex marriages. And, on top of all that, the rest of the world isn't mad at them.

Americans have fled to Canada before. In 1970, during the Vietnam War, roughly 23,000 Americans legally moved to Canada, according to the U.S. Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services. Since then, the number of people who move to Canada every year has dropped steadily, even through the Reagan and Bush I administrations. In the 1990s, the number of people moving to Canada every year leveled out and since then has hovered in the 4,000s and 5,000s.

Which brings us to recent events. According to Canada's Citizenship and Immigration Department, the numbers indicate a slight peak in immigration around 2,000 and 2001, during the election year and the first year of Bush's term, with another slight dip in 2002, after September 11 (when U.S. patriotism was running high and Canada was tightening its immigration laws). However, there's no way to know for sure whether that spike has anything to do with politics. A peak in immigration in 2000 and 2001 could just as easily have to do with the sluggish U.S. economy as it could with people wanting to flee the Bush administration.

Obviously, the Canadian government doesn't track whether people are coming into Canada because of disgruntled political philosophies. And the Canadians I talked to who deal with immigration seemed skeptical that anyone would move to Canada to get away from a dominant party.

But others have noticed a slight change.

"I don't think you could say we've seen a marked increase in Americans interested in moving to Canada," says Colin Singer, a Montreal attorney who specializes in immigration law. "But you could say there has been a slight increase in same-sex couples and Americans under common-law marriage looking at Canada as a place to take up residence."

But whether a few or a lot of people are leaving the United States for another country, some people are definitely doing it. Take Nancy and Nik Phelps of San Francisco, who are moving to Belgium later this year. Nancy says their reasons for leaving the United States are 80 percent about politics and 20 percent about lifestyle change.

"There was a time I felt that we should stay in the U.S. and fight," she says. "Then again, there was a time to get out of Germany during World War II, too. This is that time here. I think the oppression is just going to get worse here. If Bush stole one election, why wouldn't he steal the next one?"

One of the reasons people are thinking of leaving the U.S. is because of a fear of fascism. Whether or not that fear is realistic is debatable, but recent changes like the Patriot Act restricting our rights and dissent being criticized as unpatriotic has weighed heavily on many minds.

Joanna Harmon is an archivist for the Catholic Diocese of Las Cruces, New Mexico. Though she hasn't made up her mind, some of her reasons for considering the move are based in history.

"I specialized in history for my degree," she said. "And I see a lot of parallels between our society and what happened when the Republic became a dictatorship in ancient Rome. I don't want to stay here if it turns into that."

A lot of people who are thinking of moving out of the United States, to Canada or otherwise, are waiting to see what will happen in the November 2004 election. If Bush is re-elected, many plan to start the relocation process. Joan Magit, who lives in Northridge, California, says she and her husband will most likely move to Vancouver if Bush gets in.

"The damage that has been done by this administration, especially in the court system, is a lot worse than people comprehend," she says. "I don't think I will want to live in a country that is so right-wing."

Approximately 20,000 Canadians move to the United States a year, but at least some of them are turning around and moving right back. Amy Gertz was born in the United States but moved to Canada when she was 5 years old. She spent most of her adult life in Canada, but two and a half years ago, she moved back to the United States with her husband. Now at age 50, she has decided to return to Canada, where she will stay for good.

Though she says she would be considered conservative in Canada, Gertz says she's horrified by the differences between the two countries.

"What the heck happened to the U.S. while I was gone?" she said. "I had no idea that I was moving to a corporate dictatorship. I don't want to get caught in the inevitable global backlash, and I feel guilty even just being here."

As someone who knows firsthand, Gertz agrees with many of the things you hear about Canada: It has better schools and stronger health care, does a better job separating church and state, and is more globally minded than the U.S. She also points out that the U.S. is not a "postmodern" country, i.e. it isn't open to a variety of perspectives, recognizing them all as valid.

"America is more extremist, both on the left and the right," Gertz says. "Americans seem unable to manage much compromise. I believe this is one of the reasons we are in the state we are in."

(Excerpt) Read more at zwire.com ...


TOPICS: Canada; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: goodriddance; liberalidiots; solongsuckers
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Oh, Please don't go. We won't have anyone to laugh at.
21 posted on 04/15/2004 1:03:41 PM PDT by auggy (http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-DownhomeKY /// Check out My USA Photo album & Fat Files)
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To: cripplecreek
If anyone can find a better place than the USA, let them take off, and the quicker the better. My ancestors came to the USA in the 1600s, and none of us have found a better place on this earth. And no, folks, freedom is not free.
22 posted on 04/15/2004 1:04:03 PM PDT by tessalu
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
"America is more extremist, both on the left and the right," Gertz says. "Americans seem unable to manage much compromise. I believe this is one of the reasons we are in the state we are in."

As opposed to most other Western nations that range politically from moderate-socialist to extreme left.

Give up! Give up! Give up!

"Oh how much better world this would be if conservatives just conceded every issue..." < /mock whine >

23 posted on 04/15/2004 1:04:36 PM PDT by weegee (Maybe Urban Outfitters should sell t-shirts that say "Voting Democrat is for Old Dead People.")
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Is there a fund set up to accept donations to help them with their move? I would like to contribute. The fewer of them here, the better off we are.
24 posted on 04/15/2004 1:05:00 PM PDT by responder
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
But whether a few or a lot of people are leaving the United States for another country, some people are definitely doing it...

TRANSLATION: Despite finding data that overwhelmingly refutes our thesis, we'll still rely on anecdotal evidence to "prove" our pre-conceived notion.

25 posted on 04/15/2004 1:05:10 PM PDT by randog (Everything works great 'til the current flows.)
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To: marlon
au revoir

But I like your spelling better ;-)

26 posted on 04/15/2004 1:05:24 PM PDT by mass55th
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
BUBBYE!
27 posted on 04/15/2004 1:05:45 PM PDT by timydnuc ("Give me Liberty, or give me death"!)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
My best friend's soon-to-be-ex (a liberal female lawyer) told me that she doesn't car ewho wins in November as long as it isn't Bush.

I replied that she might get 12 more years of Bush, since Jeb might get elected in '08.

That ended the discussion.

But I do think we should start pushing Jeb for '08, if for no other reason than to further drive the Left into insanity.
28 posted on 04/15/2004 1:05:55 PM PDT by You Dirty Rats (WE WILL WIN WITH W - Isara)
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To: auggy
Sure we do...French Canadians are always doing something stupid. They can't help it.
29 posted on 04/15/2004 1:06:36 PM PDT by xusafflyer (Keep paying those taxes California. Mexico thanks you.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Works for me.

To be fair, I left NY City because it was hopelessly liberal - I decided to move to a more business friendly and conservative friendly state.

I can imagine the US getting so bad that I would leave, too, so I wouldn't cast stones at these folks.

But good riddance, I say.
30 posted on 04/15/2004 1:06:52 PM PDT by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
These are scary times for progressive Americans.

Things are looking up. Progressive ideas -- which were an outright negation of America's core values regarding individual liberty and virtues such as self-reliance -- came into political ascendency around the turn of the 19th century into the 20th.

Our country has been plagued with the Progressive legacy for more than 100 years. If today's Progressives are now feeling that their time is done on American soil, I would say that is grounds for a major celebration.

Maybe America has a chance after all. Though there is still much work to be done in what in fighting a American War on Progressivism.

31 posted on 04/15/2004 1:06:58 PM PDT by Maceman (Too nuanced for a bumper sticker)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Someone needs to remind this whiner that the founders had them in mind with the forming of the country.

At that time, the central government was limited in power by the Constitution, and if you didn't like the laws in your state, you could simply move to another state.

It was the damn Leftists who have made federal laws apply to every aspect of our lives down to how many gallons our toilets flush, and they're left with whining about leaving the country because they don't like the national leadership.

Well, lefties, you made the bed, now lie (what you do best) in it.
32 posted on 04/15/2004 1:07:01 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
"I specialized in history for my degree," she said. "And I see a lot of parallels between our society and what happened when the Republic became a dictatorship in ancient Rome. I don't want to stay here if it turns into that."


Well......as long as we only crucify lefties. I hear they bleed a lot.
33 posted on 04/15/2004 1:07:06 PM PDT by macamadamia (I just had a sarcasm! Now, where's that cigarette?)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
And please make sure you renounce your citizenships--we don't want you back.
34 posted on 04/15/2004 1:07:09 PM PDT by freeangel (freeangel)
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To: You Dirty Rats
I'm pushing Condi in '08. That would REALLY drive the left crazy.
35 posted on 04/15/2004 1:07:09 PM PDT by T.Smith
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To: jrushing
Boy, this is great!!

You can say that again

36 posted on 04/15/2004 1:07:13 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Just head up 81, pick up the pukes in Syracuse & take them with ya & NEVER enter these states again. ( I'm assuming this is an Ithica paper)
37 posted on 04/15/2004 1:07:21 PM PDT by Digger
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To: jrushing
Wondering if CNN is moving from Atlanta to Quebec?
38 posted on 04/15/2004 1:07:33 PM PDT by Sybeck1
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Good riddance, I say.

I say, don't let the door hitcha where the good Lord splitcha.

39 posted on 04/15/2004 1:07:45 PM PDT by Alouette (In every generation they rise up to destroy us, but the Holy One saves us from their hands)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
DOOR..............ASS!
40 posted on 04/15/2004 1:08:20 PM PDT by jslade (<IPeople who are easily offended, OFFEND ME!)
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