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War of the Words: Scientist Attacks Alien Claims
Space.com ^ | Robert Roy Britt

Posted on 03/15/2004 7:25:51 PM PST by Simmy2.5

Astronomer Philip Plait is tired of radio personality Richard Hoagland's claims. He's had enough of Hoagland's assertions that NASA is covering up evidence of extraterrestrial life, that the infamous Face on Mars was built by sentient aliens and, of late, that otherworldly machine parts are embedded in the red planet's dirt.

And then there's the mile-long translucent Martian worm.

On Hoagland's web site, there are several images from various space probes said to possibly show evidence for ET. Recent Mars rover photos include not just rocks, Hoagland and other contributors maintain, but common objects that might tell of alien civilization -- a bowl, a stove, a piston.

Hoagland has since 1983, he says, led "an outside scientific team in a critically acclaimed independent analysis of possible intelligently-designed artifacts" on other worlds, using spacecraft data from NASA and other missions.

Plait, author of "Bad Astronomy" (Wiley & Sons, 2002), which debunks space myths and common factual misconceptions, had for years not countered Hoagland directly, because he did not want to give a man he calls a "pseudoscientist" the "air time that he so desperately seeks."

But last week Plait took his intellectual gloves off.

Shapes in the clouds

Plait has two words for the latest claims of alien objects on Mars. The first is "garbage." The second and more scientific word is "pareidolia." This is the same phenomenon that makes us see animals or other familiar objects in clouds.

"It's pretty common," Plait said of pareidolia. "Just a few months ago, a water spot on my shower curtain took on the uncanny form of the face of Vladimir Lenin." Plait took a picture of the liquid Lenin and uses it illustrate his contention that, though objects on the surface of Mars can sometimes take on interesting shapes, they are just a bunch of rocks. "Hoagland's claims irritate me because he is promoting uncritical thinking," Plait told SPACE.com . "He doesn't want you to think about what you're seeing. He's trying to bamboozle you into believing what he's saying."

Critical thinking is the foundation of science, but Plait thinks it's also an important skill for anyone trying to navigate modern society. "Hoagland is eroding away at that ability."

Hoagland says the names given to objects shown on his web site are nicknames, just as the rover scientists came up with "blueberries" to describe small spherical objects on Mars.

"We are not saying there are stoves or pistons on Mars," Hoagland said in a telephone interview. "Absolutely not. When we began looking at these objects, what struck us was how remarkably symmetrical, how remarkably designed-looking, how remarkably manufactured some of these things looked."

Hoagland's web site, however, does not make this distinction with many rover images. A headline on the home page flatly states that some objects on Mars are non-natural: "Spirit Sees (and Still Ignores) More Artificial Junk." And the caption to one reads, plainly, "an Unmistakable Machined Fitting." Another caption reads: "When is a Rock Not a Rock? When They Come in pairs!" And another: "A Collection of Mechanical Bits."

Hoagland said he suggested to scientists on the rover team that they go study the objects up close to determine their composition. "NASA chose not to," he said. "So we have a hanging mystery. We don't know what these things are. We'll never know what these things are."

Hoagland is routinely critical of Stephen Squyres, a Cornell University astronomer who is mission manager for the Mars rover mission. Squyres did not respond to a SPACE.com query regarding Hoagland's claims.

It should be pointed out that NASA is not in the practice of commanding its rovers based on suggestions from people outside the agency or from beyond the Spirit and Opportunity science teams, which together include dozens of leading geologists and other scientists from inside the agency and from universities around the country.

(Excerpt) Read more at space.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: coasttocoastam; faceonmars; hoagland; mars; nasa; plait; space
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I excerpted this article because it is a long read. Good read if you are a Hoagland fan. I know there are Hoagland fans out there, well, heres an article all about him and an astronomer who is debunking him!

And more good news...HE WILL BE ON COAST TO COAST TONIGHT! One of the topics...is this article!

1 posted on 03/15/2004 7:25:52 PM PST by Simmy2.5
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To: Simmy2.5
anyone ever hear of the Russian spacecraft that photographed something moving along Phobos, then the craft dissappeared??? happened in 1988 or 1989.
2 posted on 03/15/2004 7:27:22 PM PST by raloxk
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To: Simmy2.5
http://www.badastronomy.com

Phil's uber-cool site

3 posted on 03/15/2004 7:40:13 PM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: Simmy2.5
I am selling aluminum foil hats.Anyone need one?
4 posted on 03/15/2004 7:45:31 PM PST by noutopia (Don't hate me cause I'm right !)
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To: Simmy2.5
In my younger days, I came to the conclusion that Hoaglund was either a visionary genius, or a whacko.

I'm tending towards the latter... although he was, presumably, the first to suggest life on Europa, one of Jupiter's moons, a theory that is now pretty compelling.

5 posted on 03/15/2004 7:50:46 PM PST by zoyd (Hi, I'm with the government. We're going to make you like your neighbor.)
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To: zoyd
He also claims to have said that there is water on Mars before NASA did. So, could be right on a number of issues (though possibly for the wrong reasons).

Hoagland is fun to listen to, but bring your tin foil hat just in case.
6 posted on 03/15/2004 7:53:41 PM PST by Simmy2.5 (Kerry. When you need to ketchup...)
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To: Simmy2.5
"...Just a few months ago, a water spot on my shower curtain took on the uncanny form of the face of Vladimir Lenin..."
- - -
I've had that happen to me before.
7 posted on 03/15/2004 7:54:34 PM PST by DefCon
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To: Simmy2.5
This old "face" picture has been retaken from the orbiter now around Mars.

It's just a natural feature. The idea anyone thinks an old photo proves their point is not a scientist.
8 posted on 03/15/2004 7:58:37 PM PST by Fledermaus (Do I have to resign from the VRWC to join the new RAM: Republican Attack Machine???)
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To: Simmy2.5
Hoagland is a fraud who makes alot of money off of gullible people. And stupid people too. (sorry, had to be said.).
9 posted on 03/15/2004 8:17:44 PM PST by Paradox (I have NO idea..)
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To: Paradox
But, in his defense, he's certainly an entertaining fraud...
10 posted on 03/15/2004 8:35:34 PM PST by Zeppo
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To: DefCon
I saw Trotsky in a three month old container of cottage cheese once....what he was doing in the cottage cheese I'll never know.
11 posted on 03/15/2004 8:38:23 PM PST by Leroy S. Mort
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To: Fledermaus
I've heard this face was made by aliens too.

NASA secretly blew it up so we couldn't find out the truth.

12 posted on 03/15/2004 8:41:22 PM PST by GATOR NAVY
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To: Leroy S. Mort
I saw Trotsky in a three month old container of cottage cheese once....what he was doing in the cottage cheese I'll never know.

No, it makes perfect sense. Three month old cottage cheese is revolting, after all.

13 posted on 03/15/2004 8:45:33 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Don Joe
Heck, that would give ME the trotskys.
14 posted on 03/15/2004 8:50:21 PM PST by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: KevinDavis; Sabertooth; RadioAstronomer
ping
15 posted on 03/15/2004 8:51:36 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: zoyd
this article claims that the sub-surface lake on Europa was proposed a decade before Hoagland mentioned it, and that life was speculated about in the academic press 6 months before his comments...
16 posted on 03/15/2004 8:59:48 PM PST by plastic_positive
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To: Simmy2.5
I admit that the guy really 'reaches out there' with some of his claims. But, I also live by the old adage that once in a while, even a blind squirrel will find a nut:

I have quite a diverse background in college-level physical sciences. If this is just a 'natural formation', I'd be interested to hear someone explain the process that created it. I think any paleontologist worth his rock hammer would like to get a close-up look at this thing. It sure as hell looks like a lot of cephalopod shells we studied in Oceanography 106. It was found in an area that NASA admits was once awash in water - and probably saline water, at that.

17 posted on 03/15/2004 9:01:12 PM PST by Viking2002 (I think; therefore, I Freep............)
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To: Simmy2.5
Good Grief. If I turn off the light in this room, a FACE appears on the blinds. Two big eyeballs, with pupils and the shape of the face with thin lines at the nose and mouth...

Now do I think that outside lights on the buildings going through trees does this??

I keep the light on, cuz it FREAKS me out, man!


Seriously, Hoagland utterly stretches everything to unimaginable levels.
18 posted on 03/15/2004 9:17:11 PM PST by GeronL (http://www.ArmorforCongress.com......................Send a Freeper to Congress!)
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To: Viking2002
You're right about that photo. And I find it curious that NASA picked that spot to grind. Maybe you can tell me what made the formations in these pictures. It's been driving me nuts for 2 years.

Mars Photos

Go to photos #23, 25 and 47.

I'll admit that Hoagland stretches thing too far, but every once in awhile he gets to me.

And if the link didn't work copy and paste this:

http://metaresearch.org/solar%20system/cydonia/asom/artifact_html/default.htm

19 posted on 03/15/2004 9:46:09 PM PST by Marie (My coffee cup is waaaaay too small to deal with this day.)
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To: Viking2002
I hate HTML...
20 posted on 03/15/2004 9:46:41 PM PST by Marie (My coffee cup is waaaaay too small to deal with this day.)
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