Repeal the Patriot Act - ANDREW NAPOLITANO

The Wall Street Journal ^ | Friday, March 5, 2004 | ANDREW P. NAPOLITANO

[TroutStalker]

Earlier this week when President Bush asked Congress to re-enact the portions of the Patriot Act that are due to expire at the end of next year, he provoked a critical review of this controversial law. Those who believe that our freedoms are guaranteed and cannot be legislated away by Congress remain committed to the repeal -- not the renewal -- of this overreaching legislation.

[evad]

Alma...about 170 miles south of Crawfordsville.

I was down there a week ago, looking for ROOTs with my dad and cousins.

As a displaced southerner now living in the People's Republic of MD, I'm sorry to hear it's sunk so low. I honestly would not have expected it.

[The_Eaglet]

No it's not. The financial provisions of the Act have already been used against U.S. citizens in violation of due process in a well publicized case that had nothing to do with terrorism or national security - and that was just the appetizer, wait till the main course is served.

Government is supposed to be defending the right of due process. Legislation and action that violates these liberties are actually compromises in national security and government integrity.

We need legislators and a President who will take his oath of office seriously. His oath is not just ceremonial.

[HELLRAISER II]

I wouldn't have thought that either until yesterday, but about 8 or 9 years ago we had Dan Rather come down here and do a segment on "The Pot of Gold" in which we were one of the top offenders in growing Pot. After that the State Govt. told us we would lose funding if we didn't allow the Drug Task Force to come in and save the county (We actually got two Task Force teams). But the truth of the matter is that they're quite the @ssholes and they don't mind hassling you whenever they get a wild hair and if you question it when they approach you they will make your life miserable.

[KC_for_Freedom]

You could use some support peter,

(Strengthen the Patriot Act)

I agree with this because:

(1) We have been attack free using these tools, and our agencies are cooperating with each other whereas they did not before.
(2) I don't believe the good judge can cite a case where a "joe average" citizen has has his rights trampled on.
(3) We can argue that in the hands of another administration rights can be trampled on, but we are not supporting handing this over to another administration, and finally
(4) When the threat is really over is the time to back off, not now when we are only just engaged.

[GrandEagle]

and it's bad to go after people who violate the law with every tool available?

It's not that we are opposed to "going after the bad people". History had proven that government can not be trusted with unrestrained power. The founders also though this was unwise.

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." - George Washington

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
This quotation, slightly altered, is inscribed on a plaque in the stairwell of the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[xusafflyer]

"The financial provisions of the Act have already been used against U.S. citizens in violation of due process"

Almost every law in the books has been used by unscrupulous lawyer, cop, judge in a way the writer's never intended.

You are criticizing that Prosecutor in Florida, not the law itself.

[agitator]

"and it's bad to go after people who violate the law with every tool available?"

The logical conclusion of that argument is summary roadside executions.

The first question is whether the law is legitimate or not. A legitimate government doesn't operate on the principle that whatever is convenient and effective should be legalized and used.

[patriot_wes]

The Constitution prohibits invasions of privacy by the government by denying it the power to engage in unreasonable searches and seizures absent a warrant issued upon probable cause.

Except by the IRS and the Patriot Act supporters! (what a sh*t name to call this act)

[HELLRAISER II]

It's not alway's about who's been hurt recently, sometimes it's about the possibility that the next President & his cabinet/Law Enforcement may hurt us later. I don't think that the people posting on this particular thread are against giving our Govt. the tools to use against terrorism as much as we don't want to give our Govt. the tools to harass us with no good reason.

[agitator]

The commerce clause was originally intended to prohibit states from imposing tariffs on imports from other states. Nowadays, your brain is in interstate commerce because you thought about another state. Prosecutors nationwide are salivating over the prospect of getting around the annoying requirement of probable cause by simply claiming that any suspected criminal misuse or acquisition of currency constitutes a national security issue. FoxNews recently reported:

"The administration presented the Patriot Act to the Congress two years ago as a carefully tailored and limited piece of legislation specific to targeting terrorism. And now they're using it for purposes that are obviously and completely unrelated to terrorism," Barr told Foxnews.com.

According to an FBI official in Las Vegas, investigators used a provision in the Patriot Act that allows investigators easy access to the financial records of persons suspected of terrorism or money laundering. "

Due process anyone?

[freeeee]

FBI says Patriot Act used in strip club probe

"The FBI used the USA Patriot Act to obtain financial information about key figures in a political corruption probe centered on striptease club owner Michael Galardi, an agent said."

"Investigators used a section of the Patriot Act to get subpoenas for financial documents, said Special Agent Jim Stern, a spokesman for the Las Vegas FBI office."

"It was used appropriately by the FBI and was clearly within the legal parameters of the statute," Stern said."

Yes, it was within the legal parameters of the PA, because it was set up from the beginning to be used against common criminals. "Terrorists", my arse!

The Justice Department shamelessly and purposely exploited the 9-11 tradgedy the fear it caused to gut our Constitution.

There is no reason this part of the act shouldn't be repealed. Using the PA against non-terrorists is indefensible.

[xusafflyer]

Are you just repeating what certain people have said or have you actually read these parts of the Patriot Act? I have never seen anything like that, only heard it repeated by the liberal media and the anti-govt crowd here.

I just want consistency. I expect it from liberals and conservatives.

[petercooper]

The Patriot act just clarified and streamlined laws and procedures that were already in place. Now the CIA, FBI and local law enforcement can work together. That is a good thing. Many of you are just paranoid.

I will say it again, no U.S. citizen has had his rights violated. It's that simple.

[agitator]

http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,61792,00.html

[The_Eaglet]

Due process anyone?

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
- Amendment V

[evad]

But the truth of the matter is that they're quite the @ssholes and they don't mind hassling you whenever they get a wild hair and if you question it when they approach you they will make your life miserable.

Sounds like the endless number of 'speed traps' in good ole MD that go under the guise of 'SAFETY' for the highways. In their case though, they not only get to look you over but they generate 'revenue' at the same time...a double whammy for justice.

I complained to my governor and got a very nice letter from the Superintendent of State Police citing how these 'revenue generating speed traps' were not only making the highways safer but helping to identify criminals and terrorists.

I haven't actually figured out how to respond (or if I will) to this insult to my intelligence.

It's everywhere..including Georgia.

[HELLRAISER II]

In all honesty I have looked it over but I can't say that I've completely read every sentence because it's quite lengthy. However yes I have read some of it anyway.

[agitator]

"The Patriot act just clarified and streamlined laws and procedures that were already in place. Now the CIA, FBI and local law enforcement can work together. That is a good thing. Many of you are just paranoid."

No it didn't and I'm not being paid to teach you. My patience with people who make assertions of fact which are in error is short. Dismissed.

[KC_for_Freedom]

Note, I covered that by saying we don't want to turn this power over to another administration, particularly one run by Kerry, but it is within our power to maintain control during this tough time. The war on terror is not over, in fact it is just starting.

The time will come when these regs will need sunsetting and we need then to stand together and demand that we go back to "probable cause action". However I read that even under the patriot act probable cause is being sought, its just with a judge working under the act, the probable cause is the possibility that the person is working with terrorists.

[HELLRAISER II]

It most definately fills the State Coffers or they wouldn't do it. Like so many Law enforcement agencies across the country they simply do it for the revenue. The War on Drugs is simply a scam to make money, ask any cop about it and if they're honest they'll tell you the same thing. It's unfortunate because most cops are upstanding citizens, but like most govt's whether it's Federal, State or Local, they're looking to make money off of their constituents.