The Confederate battle flag continues to be a symbol of regional pride

freelancestar ^ | 2/10/2004 | BUFFY RIPLEY

[stainlessbanner]

IS THE Confederate battle flag a symbol of hate? Although there are certain connotations that have been improperly associated with the Confederate flag, there are still many people within the American population who display it to show pride in their heritage.

Heritage, not hate.

The Confederate States of America was a compilation of southern states that seceded from the United States of America. Following the formation of this new government, the grievances between the North and South produced hostility and warfare.

Our differences divided us as a nation. Yet during that period, there arose a certain Southern solidarity that people cannot forget.

A liberal federal judge has banned the display of Confederate flags in cemeteries near our area. Could he, not the Southerners who revere the flag, be the prejudiced one?

Only two days out of 365 in a year are people allowed to fly the Confederate battle flag in Point Lookout in Maryland. There have been many appeals, but the judge concluded that it "could" cause hateful uprisings and counter-actions to prevent the flag from flying.

So much for those who died during the Civil War bravely fighting for the South. 3,300 Confederate soldiers died at Point Lookout Cemetery, and the flag would commemorate their lives and their deaths.

Although many people do not understand or agree with what the Confederate States of America stood for, these men gave their lives and had the courage to stand up for what they believed in.

In fact, Confederates fought for the ideals expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution--states' rights, no taxation without fair representation and freedom from oppressive government.

They weren't fighting for hate. They weren't fighting to destroy a race.

They were fighting to preserve the government that they had chosen--the Confederate States of America--the government that allowed them to preserve their own way of life.

Fact: The overwhelming majority of Southerners never owned slaves. Slavery as an institution was fading, and making way for more pragmatic agricultural practices, including the use of immigrant labor.

Too many people today do not agree with what Southern soldiers stood for, often basing their opinion on faulty history or willful ignorance. That doesn't mean that we should respect the soldiers from Dixie any less.

Ignorance has turned the South's past into a history of hate. I have grown up in the South. I am not racist. I consider myself to be an open-minded person.

I do have Dixie Pride, though.

I grew up in a Civil War town that has a Confederate Cemetery in the middle of it. There's even a store called "Lee's Outpost."

Yes, there are people who live in Fredericksburg who consider the Confederate flag as a symbol of hatred and racism. However, they do not know what it is truly about.

The war between the states was a time when brother fought against brother. It was a time when people didn't have the choice to be passive.

Ultimately, regardless of one's feelings about the flag, banning the Confederate flag is unconstitutional under the Bill of Rights. Flying the flag is considered a form of speech--and if it is legal to burn an American flag, it should be legal without question to fly the Confederate one.

I do own a Confederate flag. I'm a Southerner, proud of my heritage, and I take pride in the fact that my ancestors rose to the occasion and fought for their form of government.

They did not give their lives to protect slavery in the South. They did not die to keep African-Americans from sharing the same liberties and freedoms that they were blessed with. They believed they were fighting for their families, homes and states against an oppressive government in the North.

The book "The South Was Right" provides many facts to support this.

In the end, it almost doesn't matter why they fought. We claim to be a nation that believes in freedom of speech, where everyone can have their own beliefs and not be looked down on for it.

Are we or aren't we?

What makes this country great is that we have the right to make up our own minds about things. People are asked if they believe in freedom of speech. They reply, "Yes, of course I believe in freedom of speech."

Yet when they don't agree with the speech, sometimes they contradict themselves.

As a nation with millions of citizens, we will never agree on any principles or ideas as a whole--except for the fact that freedom cannot be replaced, and rights cannot be sacrificed.

So why should the Confederate flag be an exception? Free speech applies to everyone, and Southerners have great reasons to be proud of their past.

BUFFY RIPLEY is a sophomore at Virginia Commonwealth University.

[CobaltBlue]

The Confederate flag was, and is, flown defiantly by those who opposed, and continue to oppose, the abolition of slavery, and the full integration of blacks into Southern society. That's why people associate it with slavery.

It's like Germans wanting to keep flying the Nazi flag, or Japanese wanting to keep flying the rising sun flag. Their intentions may be innocent and purely historical, but they should not be surprised if their intentions are misunderstood.

[CobaltBlue]

Actually the part about the Northern tariffs is probably the most damning to your argument from a historical perspective. The tariffs were imposed from the beginning of the Republic, yet the South did not secede.

It was not until the election of Lincoln as first President of the newly formed Republican party, the anti-slavery party, that they seceded. They were willing to endure tariffs for decades, but Lincoln they were not willing to endure.

[rustbucket]

Our civil war was when my uncle George flew his 25 daylight missions over places like Dresden. And my Dad patrolled the Atlantic. One of my Grandmothers had the last letter from any family we had over there from just before the war. Haven't heard from them since. Life in East Germany must have been a bitch.

I hope they survived. Maybe you'll get to visit where your ancestors lived sometime.

A few years ago, we visited a little town in France where our most recent immigrant ancestors came from in 1858. We met cousins there who were unaware of us, and we have been exchanging gifts ever since. Very nice people. They called on 9/11 to express their sympathy to America and outrage over what happened. They even root for Lance Armstrong.

[wtc911]

Everything you say is true in a de facto not a de jure sense. I do not recall anything in the US Constitution that codifies the right to own slaves as eternal. I am of course aware of the 3/5ths language but that is not the same as a clear codification. Had the CSA continued to exist the legal institution of negro slavery would have been protected by its constitution. One can argue that there would have eventually been a legal challenge and a likely amendment but such an argument falls under the heading of idle speculation.

The thread though is about one particular flag and as I said, I can see legitimacy in both camps. As long as there is political gain to be had by posturing one way or the other the intentional misunderstanding and the resultant head-butting will continue and everyone loses.

[D Rider]

I hope they survived. Maybe you'll get to visit where your ancestors lived sometime.

Thanks

The first group of my ancestors arrived in 1865, just after the war. They were Alsatian. That makes them German speaking French since WWI. Long since lost track of that leg of the family though. At least we still have an address for the other leg.

Pretty awesome that you were able to get in touch with your relatives over so long a time span.

[rustbucket]

...the South had a difficult time recuiting troops outside of the states near the Mason Dixon line. Many people were not that intrested in the politics and would not join till the Yankees were near. Even then they often deserted the battlefield. The plantation owners who got he South into that mess could not recruit enough soldiers, nor did they have enough guns and cannons.

From General Grant:

"I refused to exchange prisoners because as soon as the South's soldiers are released from our prisons they rush back into the rebel ranks and begin fighting again. When Northern soldiers return from southern prisons either they never again enter the ranks, or if they do, not until they go to their homes and have a long furlough."

[dwd1]

This discussion seems to happen at least twice a week and some very good compromises have been proposed but the far right and far left insist upon having their way....

If the flag is only about the soldiers, it needs to be proudly displayed at the battlefield cemeteries and during the ceremonies that honor those soldiers. However, if that society which these soldiers gave their lives for is being honored and the flag is a way of saying "It is still our land, our way of life, and we still support that way of life", then the flag needs to be removed from government displays in any official capacity... To far too many black people, it says "You are not welcome here!" I think about the group Alabama and for some reason, the flag fits. I think about First Manassus (a.k.a First Battle of Bull Run) and the flag fits... If I go to a court house, I think I am less comfortable. If I get pulled over by a police officer displaying the flag, I am very uncomfortable. I go into a bar and I see the flag, if I see the flag, I am going to finish my drink and leave.

The flag symbolizes what divides us, not what unites us.

And the discussion of the Civil War can be debated all year long. What I find interesting is that Jim Crow Laws, lynchings, sharecropping, all the other things that happened afterwards where that flag was waved in anger against minorities is excluded. This is why the flag is so divisive.

I think there has never been a separation of honoring the veterans versus honoring the society they defended. Without that, the flag will continue to have a negative meaning within certain groups. Sad, but true....

[U S Army EOD]

People in the South did fight to keep their slaves, this included both the white and black slave owners.

[U S Army EOD]

Where the hell is the gun rack?

[BSunday]

I don't have one .... yet....

[U S Army EOD]

You need to bone up on your history a little bit. Blacks had the screws put to them every where they lived until about the mid 60's. There have been far more blacks killed in the North in race riots than were ever lynched in the South. Actually probably as many blacks were lynched in the North as they were in the South. The KKK was every where.

I live in Georgia and also grew up during segregation. Two different systems did not make much sense to me. I am from a small town and we only had a tent for a movie theater. We all went in the tent that had a rope down the middle of it. The whites sat on one side and the blacks sat on the other side. The funny thing is we use to talk back and forth over the rope all the time. The doctor's office had two different waiting rooms but went into the same doctor's office. My family had a black woman that worked for us from the time she was 14 till her mid 70's when my mother's generation started dying out. She would have to take me to the doctor all the time when I got hurt. When she could hear me yelling in pain in Doc's office she would be right through the door. I was asked several years ago to give her eulogy at the black church where she was buried. When I finished there was not a dry eye in the church to include me then the entire congregation stood up and applauded.

When I went in the army I was stationed in the North. I was applaud to see how blacks were treated up there. It would have never been allowed where I lived. Maybe where I lived was not an over all representation of the South, but if you ever came down here and talked to some of the older blacks who lived here, you might be surprised to learn that if they were being treated badly by what we called white trash, all they had to do was go complain to the local KKK and they would help them out.

[D Rider]

...the South had a difficult time recuiting troops outside of the states near the Mason Dixon line. Many people were not that intrested in the politics and would not join till the Yankees were near. Even then they often deserted the battlefield. The plantation owners who got he South into that mess could not recruit enough soldiers, nor did they have enough guns and cannons.

You stated that the southerners deserted. Your quote, as follows, contradicts that: From General Grant: "I refused to exchange prisoners because as soon as the South's soldiers are released from our prisons they rush back into the rebel ranks and begin fighting again.

Secondly your quote sounds like it is from 1864-65. Southerners did not treat union soldiers the same as southern soldiers were treated. The union soldiers released were unfit for combat.

Third this was a war of armies, not groups of plantation owners. This can be confirmed by battle body counts.

[U S Army EOD]

What flag to the Japs fly now?

[D Rider]

Sorry rustbucket, I didn't read that you were responding to "ItsTheMediaStupid". Please disregard my last post, I agree with you.

D.Rider

[CobaltBlue]

The Japanese fly a white flag with a red sun.

During WWII, this is the flag used by the military. If they still used this flag, I think it would cause hard feelings. No?

[U S Army EOD]

I will check out WWII photos to see if you are right.

[wtc911]

I grew up in the segregated north in the 50s-60s. The segregation was economic and residential. Anyone ate wherever, shopped wherever, went to school where they lived. There were exceptions of the country club variety but the reason the south was targeted was because that's where the epicenter of the problem was.

This thread is about the various CSA flags and the different ways people react to them. As such I stand by my previous comments.

[Gianni]

Oops, nice get.

Hopefully, the message was not lost due to my sloppiness.

[Gianni]

Actually the part about the Northern tariffs is probably the most damning to your argument

Eh???

[G, #96] protectionism, subsidies for Northern business, disproportionate tax burden, and denial of rights in the territories

Your bringing tariff as a general issue into it is a non-sequitur. The South was not opposed to revenue tarrifs and ratified a constitution which allowed the same. Protectionism is favoritism by government for the benefit of a few at greater cost to all. As if to purposely chap the ass of Southerners, the higher duties paid on imported goods were turned around to subsidize (happy, Non?) Northern industry!

Today's equivalent looks like this: A conservative Christian starts his own business with all the risk his own. His business flourishes, and the tax man takes half his earnings in spite of his protests. Those earnings are then turned around to pay for abortions for federal employees and "art" such as Crucifix in Urine, which his money trapses around the country so that others might share in his offense.

[gitmo]