Posted on 02/10/2004 6:16:00 AM PST by stainlessbanner
IS THE Confederate battle flag a symbol of hate? Although there are certain connotations that have been improperly associated with the Confederate flag, there are still many people within the American population who display it to show pride in their heritage.
Heritage, not hate.
The Confederate States of America was a compilation of southern states that seceded from the United States of America. Following the formation of this new government, the grievances between the North and South produced hostility and warfare.
Our differences divided us as a nation. Yet during that period, there arose a certain Southern solidarity that people cannot forget.
A liberal federal judge has banned the display of Confederate flags in cemeteries near our area. Could he, not the Southerners who revere the flag, be the prejudiced one?
Only two days out of 365 in a year are people allowed to fly the Confederate battle flag in Point Lookout in Maryland. There have been many appeals, but the judge concluded that it "could" cause hateful uprisings and counter-actions to prevent the flag from flying.
So much for those who died during the Civil War bravely fighting for the South. 3,300 Confederate soldiers died at Point Lookout Cemetery, and the flag would commemorate their lives and their deaths.
Although many people do not understand or agree with what the Confederate States of America stood for, these men gave their lives and had the courage to stand up for what they believed in.
In fact, Confederates fought for the ideals expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution--states' rights, no taxation without fair representation and freedom from oppressive government.
They weren't fighting for hate. They weren't fighting to destroy a race.
They were fighting to preserve the government that they had chosen--the Confederate States of America--the government that allowed them to preserve their own way of life.
Fact: The overwhelming majority of Southerners never owned slaves. Slavery as an institution was fading, and making way for more pragmatic agricultural practices, including the use of immigrant labor.
Too many people today do not agree with what Southern soldiers stood for, often basing their opinion on faulty history or willful ignorance. That doesn't mean that we should respect the soldiers from Dixie any less.
Ignorance has turned the South's past into a history of hate. I have grown up in the South. I am not racist. I consider myself to be an open-minded person.
I do have Dixie Pride, though.
I grew up in a Civil War town that has a Confederate Cemetery in the middle of it. There's even a store called "Lee's Outpost."
Yes, there are people who live in Fredericksburg who consider the Confederate flag as a symbol of hatred and racism. However, they do not know what it is truly about.
The war between the states was a time when brother fought against brother. It was a time when people didn't have the choice to be passive.
Ultimately, regardless of one's feelings about the flag, banning the Confederate flag is unconstitutional under the Bill of Rights. Flying the flag is considered a form of speech--and if it is legal to burn an American flag, it should be legal without question to fly the Confederate one.
I do own a Confederate flag. I'm a Southerner, proud of my heritage, and I take pride in the fact that my ancestors rose to the occasion and fought for their form of government.
They did not give their lives to protect slavery in the South. They did not die to keep African-Americans from sharing the same liberties and freedoms that they were blessed with. They believed they were fighting for their families, homes and states against an oppressive government in the North.
The book "The South Was Right" provides many facts to support this.
In the end, it almost doesn't matter why they fought. We claim to be a nation that believes in freedom of speech, where everyone can have their own beliefs and not be looked down on for it.
Are we or aren't we?
What makes this country great is that we have the right to make up our own minds about things. People are asked if they believe in freedom of speech. They reply, "Yes, of course I believe in freedom of speech."
Yet when they don't agree with the speech, sometimes they contradict themselves.
As a nation with millions of citizens, we will never agree on any principles or ideas as a whole--except for the fact that freedom cannot be replaced, and rights cannot be sacrificed.
So why should the Confederate flag be an exception? Free speech applies to everyone, and Southerners have great reasons to be proud of their past.
BUFFY RIPLEY is a sophomore at Virginia Commonwealth University.
one other example: in 1890 29YO identical twins were listed ONE as fullblood Seminole and the OTHER as fullblood Cheyenne! that i had to laugh about!
it does however point out how incorrect the database was/is.
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
In 1800 the slave-holding States held voting parity with the non-slaveholding States in the House and the Senate, and through 1850, more often than not, held the Presidency (Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson, W.H. Harrison (born in VA), Polk, and Taylor.
By 1850, the population gains in the North, due in part to immigration, gave the North effective control of the House. But so long as the delicate balance remained in the Senate, the South was mollified. However the events of the 1850's (beginning with the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854, "popular sovereignty," the Dred Scott Case, etc.), led directly to war.
From statements made by contemporary southern leaders, the sectional conflict, the specter of northern political dominance (which would lead to crippling tariffs and eventually abolition), and the threat to their cultural heritage and economic system, was more than they could bear.
The Governor's statement was atypically politic. Compare that to Robert Toomb's barrage at the December 1860 Georgia secession conference. Or those made the next day by Alexander Stephens.
Just as the astute reader of history will concede that the North did not enter the war to "free the slaves," the same reader must admit that the South chose its secessionist course to preserve the institution of slavery.
"They have thus combined a party exclusively in the Northern States, whose avowed objects (i.e. the containment of slavery to existing states and/or its eventual abolition), not only endanger the peace, but the very existence of near one-half the States of this Confederacy. And in the recent election for President and Vice-President of these States, they have carried the election upon principles that make it no longer safe for us to rely upon the powers of the Federal Government or the guarantees of the Federal compact ("This government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free")."
"This is the great overt act of the people of in the Northern States at the ballot box, in the exercise of their sovereign power at the polls, from which there is no higher appeal recognized under our system of government in its ordinary and habitual operations. (The great irony here is that it was the actions of the pro-slavery southern democrats which caused the schism in that party and led directly to Lincoln's election.) They thus propose to inaugurate a Chief Magistrate at the head of the Army and Navy with vast powers, not to preside over the common interests and destinies of all the States alike, but upon issues of malignant hostility and uncompromising war to be urged upon the rights, the interests and the peace of half the States of this Union." (We lost the election big time and now we're screwed.)
"In the Southern States there are two entirely distinct and separate races, and one has been held in subjection to the other by peaceful inheritance from worthy and patriotic ancestors, and all who know the races, well know that it is the only form of government that can preserve both and administer the blessings of civilization with order and in harmony." (Doesn't anyone know slavery is a "postive good"?
"Any thing tending to change or weaken this government and the subordination between the races not only endangers the peace, but the very existence of our society itself." (What will we do if we lose our slaves?)
"We have for years warned the Northern people of the dangers they were producing by their wanton and lawless course. (The North won't return our fugitive slaves.) We have often appealed to our sister States of the South to act with us in concert upon some firm and moderate system by which we might be able to save the Federal Constitution, and yet feel safe under the general compact of union; but we could obtain no fair hearing from the North, nor could we see any concerted plan, proposed by any of our co-States of the South, calculated to make us feel safe and secure." (Interesting statement - he blames not only the North, but other Southern states for South Carolina's collective paranoia.)
"This State was one of the original parties to the Federal compact of union. We agreed to it, as a State, under peculiar circumstances; when we were surrounded with great external pressure (South Carolina was the eighth State to ratify the proposed constitution, by a vote of 149-46 ... not exactly an arm-twisting), for purposes of national protection and to advance the interests and general welfare of all the States equally and Alike; and when it ceased to do this, it is no longer a perpetual union. (Oops! There's a bad concession. All real southrons know there was no "perpetual union" after the Articles of Confederation were replaced by the Constitution. Or so they say.)
The governor didn't need to use the word "slavery," but it is written all over his speech. My argument is valid and my prior comments are right on the mark.
i note also that you are unwilling/unable to come & see the ACTUAL evidence that you & others of the unionist lunatic fringe continue to deny exists, in the face of ACTUAL service records to the contrary.
free dixie,sw
for the union, the SOLE reason in 1861 for prosecuting a war of conquest of the southern states was PRESERVATION of the union, i.e. assuring that the mostly rural/agricultural southern states would:
1. remain/return to the fold of states in the union
2.continue to provide agricultual materials at a price determined by the northern purchasers of those goods.
3. AND would remain in a PERMANENT subserviant postion in all relations with the northern/industrialized states.(in the opinion of the intellectual/social/monied elites in the north (then & NOW)ordinary citizens should be CONTROLLED for their benefit, by their betters!)
in point of fact, there was LITTLE interest in 1860-61 in the plight of the slaves any ANY area of the north OR south. a former professor of history at Grambling University, during a faculty conference, stated that in 1860 that,
"there was not 10,000 people in all of America who cared a damn about slavery OR about the plight of the slaves. they SHOULD have;they did NOT. nobody was willing to fight a skirmish, much less a major war, over slavery. NOBODY of course asked the slaves' opinion!"
free dixie,sw
1. there are NO neo-confederates (at least i've never met one.), though there are HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of Judeo-Christian, conservative,heterosexual,anti-taxation,anti-federal intrusion, PRO-dixie partiots all over the "red states". more are converted every day by the intrusiveness, stupidity & arrogance of a federal government grown too big, with it's own importance.
2.nobody i know of hates the USA; we just want the leftist, secularist,damnyankees out of our lives, out of our churches & synagogues AND to be left alone!
you're on a roll. RAVE ON!
every post you make ADVANCES the dixie LIBERTY cause. you, too, serve the TRUE CAUSE & gets us converts.
free dixie,sw
once again, you're off your meds and into one of your HATE-filled, arrogant,ignorant rants.
the PRO-dixie folks on FR were HORRIFIED, saddened & in MANY cases sent flowers,did volunteer duty, etc. in response to the terrorist actions against ALL of US.
several of us made a trip to ground zero to pray,lay wreaths & remember the fallen. that's about 100% more than most damnyankees did. what i DO remember from that period were the snide remarks made by some northerners, chiding us southrons for our religious response to the tragedy. some said, in so many words: pray less BUT send us more $$$$$$.
free dixie,sw
I can't. He thought I was picking on him and I'm not allowed to post to him or mention him.
once again, you're off your meds and into one of your HATE-filled, arrogant,ignorant rants.
Nope. I saw what I saw.
the PRO-dixie folks on FR were HORRIFIED, saddened & in MANY cases sent flowers,did volunteer duty, etc. in response to the terrorist actions against ALL of US.
Some were.
several of us made a trip to ground zero to pray,lay wreaths & remember the fallen. that's about 100% more than most damnyankees did. what i DO remember from that period were the snide remarks made by some northerners, chiding us southrons for our religious response to the tragedy. some said, in so many words: pray less BUT send us more $$$$$$.
See, you're using 9-11 for your hate-filled rants.
I don't know who the authors are, but at least the Georgia declaration was approved by the Legislature and entered into the annals of the official State records. It doesn't really matter to me anyway, because the declarations parrot the rationale used in the speeches of prominent Southern leaders such as Stephens, Toombs, J. Davis, and others.
I see the whole sectional conflict leading up to the WBTS as a complex interaction, on cultural, economic, and political levels. We can diagree about what constituted "major" or "minor" factors, but almost invariably, when the rationale for secession is explained by a contemporary Southern politician, the slavery issue is the first one stated. The ruling Southern oligarchy (you would say 5-6% of the population, I would say 25-35%) was obsessed with the slave issue, and all of the ramifications of its prospective demise.
In times past, you have speculated that "chattel slavery would have died out in 5-10 years" (from 1860). Even if the economic impetus and technological developments for ending slave labor would have existed by 1870, the cultural pressure to continue the institution would have assured, that in at least parts of the deep south, slavery would have continued on in the form of menial servitude. Several of the Southern state constitutions guaranteed the continuance of slavery and some states had laws against even considering abolition.
I find your mention of the "monied elites" of the North to be almost humerous. The richest class of people (plantation owners) in the United States in 1860 lived in the South.
Re-check your history. It was President Buchanan's unnecessary signature on the "proposed" Amendment. It was one of Buchanan's last acts as President.
The House later re-considered whether the actual vote constituted the 2/3rds requirement for approval, and withdrew their approval. Whether they could do this is still an open question.
you are a fine one to talk about "hatefilled rants"! as one of the unionist lunatic fringe on FR, you should go away OR start learning/posting something except your usual hatefilled,arrogant,ignorant, anti-southron rants & UNtruthful comments.
surely you are smart enough to realize that not only is most of the bilge you post FALSE, but also that you are constantly laughed AT by knowledgeable Freepers.
there are too many educated people here on FR to get away with such nonsense. try heading over to DU, where southHATERS,LIARS,FOOLS & LIBs dwell. i predict they will LIKE you.
free dixie,sw
GA did enter the documents into the annals of the state. in the EXACT same vein, a legislator entered his mother's cookbook into the annals. "entering" does NOT inply APPROVAL or SPONSORSHIP.
free dixie,sw
Any good recipes?
No, just a typical neoconfederate who started something he couldn't finish and went whining.
you are a fine one to talk about "hatefilled rants"! as one of the unionist lunatic fringe on FR, you should go away OR start learning/posting something except your usual hatefilled,arrogant,ignorant, anti-southron rants & UNtruthful comments.
Did you say something about hate-filled rants?
surely you are smart enough to realize that not only is most of the bilge you post FALSE, but also that you are constantly laughed AT by knowledgeable Freepers.
Like you? lol All I've said is true.
there are too many educated people here on FR to get away with such nonsense. try heading over to DU, where southHATERS,LIARS,FOOLS & LIBs dwell. i predict they will LIKE you.
What was that about hate-filled rants you were saying?
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