MEL ON THE DEFENSIVE

NY Post ^ | January 30, 2004 | Liz Smith

[presidio9]

'YOU'RE GOING to have to go on record. The Holocaust happened, right?" Peggy Noonan asks of Mel Gibson in the Reader's Digest for March. Gibson: "I have friends and parents of friends who have numbers on their arms. The guy who taught me Spanish was a Holocaust survivor. He worked in a concentration camp in France. Yes, of course. Atrocities happened. War is horrible. The Second World War killed tens of millions of people. Some of them were Jews in concentration camps. Many people lost their lives. In the Ukraine, several million starved to death between 1932 and 1933. During the last century, 20 million people died in the Soviet Union."

[Servant of the 9]

What I said is that his grasp of 20th Century history is questionable, and that raises questions about his grasp of history of any era. Really? Then provide the quote and the source that show that Gibson denies the holocaust. Or, are you going on rumor or hearsay or bias?

I give up, you are incapable of understanding what you read.

You are the only person I have ever dealt with who claimed to be an exmarine.
Everyone else says 'Once a Marine, always a Marine'
Was your discharge less than honerable of something?

So9

[Servant of the 9]

What I said is that his grasp of 20th Century history is questionable, and that raises questions about his grasp of history of any era.

Really? Then provide the quote and the source that show that Gibson denies the holocaust. Or, are you going on rumor or hearsay or bias?

I give up, you are incapable of understanding what you read.

You are the only person I have ever dealt with who claimed to be an exmarine.
Everyone else says 'Once a Marine, always a Marine'
Was your discharge less than honerable of something?

So9

[af_vet_1981]

Untrue. Peggy Noonan asked the question.

[Texas2step]

He implied ambiguity and evasion in his answers and that is quite sad.

Unfortunately, neither presidio9, nor myself, nor many others see any abiguity at all.

From the article, without the full of the interview and quotes taken out of full context.: "I have friends and parents of friends who have numbers on their arms. The guy who taught me Spanish was a Holocaust survivor. He worked in a concentration camp in France. Yes, of course. Atrocities happened. War is horrible. The Second World War killed tens of millions of people. Some of them were Jews in concentration camps. Many people lost their lives. In the Ukraine, several million starved to death between 1932 and 1933. During the last century, 20 million people died in the Soviet Union."

I just have a hard time understanding how "Yes, of course" is denial. I have a hard time understanding how you can have a Holocaust survivor without a Holocaust. I have a hard time understanding how this answer, even taken out of context, is ambiguious.

But, again, there's no reason for the question to even be asked. It's flat out stupid to pin the sins of the father on the son. I've asked previously, in this thread, that just because my father is a racist, and I a racist, too?

That questions hasn't been answered, but I can assure you that I am not a racist. Does that mean I'm going to attack my father? Nope, not going to happen.

[missyme]

I want a one word, unqualified answer to the question "do you believe the holocaust happened?"

Ah? Question Did you want to know if the makers of the recent film "The Gospel of John" views on the Holocaust? or what about Sorceses view of the Holocaust? in fact any movie about the crucifixcion of Jesus Christ were you interested in there views of the Holocaust?
I don't understand???

What is the Holocaust have to do with "The Passion of Christ" other than causing BS for no reason....?

[Inyokern]

Hate for whom? Jesus specifically pointed out to his listeners that they might be Abraham's descendants, they were no longer his children.

According to the Gospel of John, the Jews are not merely no longer his children, they the children of the devil.

It is laughable to claim that this is not a message of hate. It is even worse than the Muslim claim that the Jews are descendants of pigs and monkeys.

[exmarine]

It is quite clear that the attacks on Gibson and The Passion movie is not about anti-semitism or about Mel Gibson. These attacks HAVE SPIRITUAL FORCES FROM HELL BEHIND THEM. These attacks are from the pit of hell who do not want the Gospel of Jesus Christ - in all of it's reality - to be shown to the world! But they have failed! God has prevailed. Think about it: The schools and government have forced God out so the message could not come from those sectors, but a movie can be disseminated far and wide if the producer is one of the most talented and powerful people in the business! A movie like this may just be the BEST and fastest way to spread the gospel in an age of secular humanism.

There is no doubt in my mind that God has used Gibson to spread the Gospel - to show Americans (and the world) that they are all hopelessly condemned sinners who need a Savior, and that that Savior took each person's punishment on Himself; and that only thru faith in Christ can people have hope and even eternal life. Christ is the ONLY one who looks good in this movie.

This may be God's final wakeup call to a dead and dying America.

[Servant of the 9]

Ah? Question Did you want to know if the makers of the recent film "The Gospel of John" views on the Holocaust? or what about Sorceses view of the Holocaust? in fact any movie about the crucifixcion of Jesus Christ were you interested in there views of the Holocaust?
I don't understand???

Gibson's beliefs about the holocaust became relevant because:
1. His father is on record as a holocaust denier.
2. Gibson is on record as believing everything his father ever told him.
3. He failed to give a reasonable answer when asked about it.

The first line of the article this thread is discussing is "YOU'RE GOING to have to go on record. The Holocaust happened, right?" Peggy Noonan asks of Mel Gibson" and that is what is being discussed, not his movie.

All Gibson had to do was answer 'Right' or 'yes' or un-huh, or anything else without equivocation and the controversy would be over. He has been asked many times, and has refused to give a real answer.

So9

[presidio9]

According to the Gospel of John, the Jews are not merely no longer His children, they the children of the devil.

Read the test again. It refers to the specific group of people He was addressing.

[Texas2step]

What exactly is "untrue"?

Yes, Peggy asked the question (I didn't deny that). But, Peggy did not write the article we're reading. My point is that Mel shouldn't even be asked this question.

What grounds do we have that this question even be asked? What's being used is his father's views, which is asinine. He's been falsely accused by some secular Jews, who have an agenda, and he has a father who has some wacky, unorthodox views (and even those are debateable, but for the sake of not clouding this thread any more, I'll let you stipulate), that's it.

If Mel were making a movie about the Holocaust, I could understand the question, maybe. He's not. He's making a movie about a subject upon which his faith is based. By all accounts he has been faithful to the scriptures upon which we Christians base our faith.

You attack that, like another poster who shall remain nameless, then you're attacking my faith. I haven't attacked your faith, don't attack mine.

[missyme]

Here Here!
My father to a Racist..sure it's not a good thing and I am definetly not a racist yet am I going to love my father any less NO! am I going to stab him in the back NO!

Mel's father raised 11 Children and showed them what "faith" was all about, He was not a wife beater, nor a child molester nor a drunk, thief, bum yet he is "Branded"

I would like to see what families alot of these posters have so we might judge them, but of course they hide in there hypocrisy....

[presidio9]

Yes, Peggy asked the question (I didn't deny that). But, Peggy did not write the article we're reading. My point is that Mel shouldn't even be asked this question.

Yeah, why wasn't Mel asked about his views on gay marriage during this interview?

[exmarine]

I see, you have ZERO EVIDENCE to say what you say, yet you say it anyway! That, my friend, is the very definition of BIAS. Then, you have the gall to attack MY character! It seems slander and character assassination is what you do! Consider yourself exposed!

[exmarine]

What I said is that his grasp of 20th Century history is questionable, and that raises questions about his grasp of history of any era.

Evidence for this statement! Where is it? Got a quote? got a source? Got milk?

[Servant of the 9]

What I said is that his grasp of 20th Century history is questionable, and that raises questions about his grasp of history of any era.

Evidence for this statement! Where is it? Got a quote? got a source? Got milk?

His answer to Noonan in the article above is proof, quote, and source for any rational enough to understand them.

So9

[missyme]

Ok let's say Mel's father is a definite Holocaust denier, what should he do? Mel is a comitted family man as he comes from a large family and has a strong commitment to his family. First he loves his FATHER and is going to stick up for him no matter what just like I think most of us would do for our families.

Look at the Jackson Family even though I think Michael is a freak his family loves him and is going to stand up for him any way possible even if he is guilty. That's what family commitment is.

My brothers and sisters could call us each other the worse names possible, but let anyone else say something about our family and those were: FIGHTING WORDS"

[veronica]

Most research confirms that the number of victims was between five and six million.

No gray area there at all. Those are the long-accepted and documented numbers. Between 5.5 and 6 million to be more precise.

[exmarine]

His answer to Noonan in the article above is proof, quote, and source for any rational enough to understand them.

Really? Okay genius, post the quote from the Noonan interview that even hints of anti-semitism. You are judging the man by what he DOESN'T SAY rather than what he DOES SAY, and he clearly has FRIENDS who were in Nazi camps! It's a peculiar thing - to judge people by what they don't say.

SLANDERER!

[Texas2step]

His answer to Noonan in the article above is proof, quote, and source for any rational enough to understand them.

That's the biggest pile of horse manure I've seen in quite some time! You have serious reading comprehension problems. What part of "Yes, of course" do you not understand? How can you have a Holocaust survivor without a Holocaust?

You want an answer, you got one. Clausius wanted an answer he got one. Neither of you got the exact answer you wanted and neither one of you want the same answer. That's a classic lose/lose proposition. No matter what he says, you are going to nail him for it.

[Servant of the 9]

Ok let's say Mel's father is a definite Holocaust denier, what should he do? Mel is a comitted family man as he comes from a large family and has a strong commitment to his family. First he loves his FATHER and is going to stick up for him no matter what just like I think most of us would do for our families.

Look at the Jackson Family even though I think Michael is a freak his family loves him and is going to stand up for him any way possible even if he is guilty. That's what family commitment is.

Yes, and they are wrong to go so far.

Jackson commits physical perversion and Gibson's father intelectual perversion.
Both will go on to corrupt more innocents if their families get their way.
Decency limits how far you can go in supporting your family.

So9