Viability of New York State worries many

ROCHESTER DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE ^ | (January 8, 2004) — | By Rick Armon and Enid Arbelo

[Behind Liberal Lines]

ROCHESTER--Dave Choate worries that he is the last generation of his family to live in New York state.

Many relatives have moved away over the years. To Vermont. To Florida. To North Carolina. Soon, his parents will relocate to Tennessee.

“I can’t see my kids or my brother’s kids finding decent paying jobs in 15 years,” said Choate, a 35-year-old Spencerport resident and software engineer at the West Group.

The reason, he said, is that high taxes are choking residents and businesses.

As Gov. George Pataki delivered his annual State of the State speech in Albany on Wednesday, the Democrat and Chronicle asked several Rochester-area residents and community leaders to assess their state. Like Choate, many New Yorkers aren’t optimistic about the future. As a matter of fact, they are downright depressed — citing taxes, political shenanigans at the statehouse and major financial challenges such as Medicaid, education and pensions for government workers.

New York is losing ground to other states, Choate said, noting that New York has the highest local tax burden in the country. A recent report by the Citizens Budget Commission, a watchdog group, said that New Yorkers pay $73 in local taxes for every $1,000 of personal income, 97 percent more than the U.S. average.

New York needs to make serious cutbacks to become competitive or continue to see residents move elsewhere, Choate said.

Luis Perez, a pastor at Bethel Christian Fellowship on East Avenue and the head of the city’s Republican Committee, agrees.

“It sounds very naive, but you have to cut costs,” he said. “These people are throwing money around like there’s a bottomless pit. At some point, the money that’s being thrown around is going to come to an end. I don’t know how they can continue to put that burden on people like you and I.”

Three multibillion dollar problems face the state now — education, Medicaid and pensions — and all involve the word “reform,” said Charles Zettek, director of government management services at the Rochester-based Center for Governmental Research. It will be interesting to see how the state tackles those issues, he said.

But Zettek also warned against making blanket statements about the health of New York.

“The state is so big and so diverse,” he said. “You can’t make a summary statement about the whole state. You need to look at the different regions.”

Some recent surveys have shown residents and businesses are optimistic about the Finger Lakes economy. A recent Manpower Inc. report indicated that local businesses are more confident than their counterparts nationwide that they will be hiring next year. And a consumer confidence report released this week by Siena Research Institute indicated residents are hopeful about the local economy.

Carlos Leal, an elementary math teacher for the Rochester School District, said that the state is in flux. The 32-year-old Texas native said he remembers when New York was a destination, but times have changed.

“I don’t know if there is a great majority of individuals who want to move to New York state anymore because it’s too expensive,” Leal said.

[Behind Liberal Lines]

Interestingly enough, there seems to be an increasing trend in the normally liberal New York State media to write articles about how taxes are choking this state to death.

It may be that we've finally reached the saturation point for even liberals.

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[2banana]

I grew up in Westchester County (right to the north of NYC). A great place to live back then. Today, taxes on the house I grew up in are $15,000/year and a run-down three bedroom house on a 80x80 lot on the street is going for over $400,000. No way I could afford to live there with a family.

On the bright side, my parents sold their house and moved closer to the grandchildren. In what they SAVE in taxes in a year they pay for the mortgage for their new house on Pennsylvania!

[waterstraat]

Soon, his parents will relocate to Tennessee.

Why are so many people moving to Tennesee? I know lots of people moving there, and many of them are not conservative, and dont even like country music.

[randita]

It may be that we've finally reached the saturation point for even liberals.

Unbelievably, just that happened in CA--even more liberal than NY. But what's ironic is that in CA it happened predictably under a Democrat governor, but in NY the governor is a Republican.

[sticker]

"Why are so many people moving to Tennesee? I know lots of people moving there, and many of them are not conservative, and dont even like country music."

There are 4 main reasons:(1) Tennessee is basically 3 states, East (mountains), Middle (rolling hills) and West (flat and swampy) (2) No state income tax YET (3) It is not Al Gore's home state (4) You don't have to travel that far to visit a 3rd world country (Memphis) PS: I was born and raised here and I don't like country music

[appeal2]

Pataki is a republican in name only. He was an incompetent lawyer and when D'Amato was searching for a replacement for Cuomo, the fact that Pataki was a political unknown was key to victory.

If NY just cut Medicaid to the same per capita amount as the rest of the states the state would run a 20 bil surplus.

The other problem is Sheldon Silver, one of the nastiest old time boss politicians around. He runs the assembly with an iron fist and is widely despised. Until he goes there is no hope of any reform.

[Behind Liberal Lines]

upstate ping

[The Mayor]

It may be that we've finally reached the saturation point for even liberals

We could only hope and Pray so. So now what is the next step?

Bounce every incumbent out of office starting with Shelly Silver on down the line!!

[Dubh_Ghlase]

Of me and my siblings (5 in all, born in the Adirondacks), only 2 still reside in NY, and one plans to move the day he retires (from his state job). My inlaws moved the first year they retired (Rockland county). Too expensive, too liberal, and too cold. The rich want the state "Forever Wild", well they can have it! I don't even consider trips or vacations there anymore...

[Alberta's Child]

People I know in the land development business tell me that upstate New York should be one of the most attractive real estate markets in the country. The place has so many things going for it that are the envy of other regions of the U.S.: great highway, rail, and utility infrastructure, an abundant supply of fresh water, inexpensive raw land, etc.

The fact that the prospects for the region are so poor despite all these advantages is a disgraceful reflection of New York's dysfunctional state government.

[I still care]

Well, they come down here and vote in higher taxes. Palm Beach County is loaded with NY'rs that come down for the lower taxes and proceed to vote in every tax raising Democrat they can.

I moved here to FL years ago, and it was a breath of fresh air - but also culture shock - I even had to pave my own street in front of my house. After getting used to it, I realize how superior it is to have control over your own money and responsiblities.

I am a Southerner by choice, and man I love it. I am also a missionary to every Northerner I can be, about how great it is to pay your own way instead of being taxed. \

The only think I miss from up North is the food -what I would give for a good bagel, knish, Italian, boy, I could go on and on....

[qam1]

Unbelievably, just that happened in CA--even more liberal than NY. But what's ironic is that in CA it happened predictably under a Democrat governor, but in NY the governor is a Republican.

Pataki is by far a bigger Liberal than Grey Davis ever was. The same with the NY state Senate (where the Republicans have a commanding 38-24 majority) where WITHOUT EXCEPTION every single Republican member is further to the left than any California legisator especially the majority leader Joe Bruno.

[Marysecretary]

It's probably cheap to live there, especially when you are elderly and living on a fixed income. That's only my opinion, though. I have no factual information on that.

[Alberta's Child]

What makes New York unusual from a political perspective is that the GOP legislators have a vested in interest in maintaining a Marxist state. The reason for this is that the GOP tends to dominate those rural parts of the state that benefit most from high levels of state spending. The urban, Democratic districts in and around New York City pay a disproportionate amount of the state's taxes and get far less in return from Albany than they pay in state taxes.

[Marysecretary]

He's a RINO, not a real pubbie. We haven't had a true conservative here since I can remember.

[Marysecretary]

In spite of the cold and taxes, I'm staying. I love Central New York. I can be in the Adirondacks in just over one hour, I can be on the St. Lawrence in little over two hours. It's down economically but the potential for growth is good. The Mennonites have started settling here because it's too expensive in PA and other places where Mennonites and Amish have lived for years. I see that as a real improvement. Many people from NY have moved up here because in comparison, homes are much cheaper. That being said, homes are much more expensive than they used to be but that seems to be nation-wide, not just here.

Two of my children still live here and our beloved church family is here. So, as long as God wants us here, this is where we're staying. I look to Him to provide for us, not the state or the government.

[expatpat]

What is needed IMO is a severing of NYC from the rest of the State. The rest could then vote more conservatively, and get back to health. Then NYC, like DC, can do its own liberal thing until.....

[Alberta's Child]

I once met a guy who traveled all over the world with his wife after they retired. He said they had visited 120 different countries over a ten-year period or something like that. Imagine my surprise when I asked him the most beautiful place he had ever visited in his travels . . .

"Everybody is shocked to hear this -- but it's upstate New York!"

[Marysecretary]

It's true. There's a part of the countryside that reminds me of the countryside near Oslo, Norway. The mountains are wonderful, etc. I love it here. I haven't travelled extensively (Hawaii, Alaska, Norway) but I'm always glad to be back home. These places are great to visit but...I could stay in Norway for a few months though. Loved it there. Anyplace where there is family is home to me. We love the seasons and watching the deer frolic in our yard. Living in a college town, or near one, is different from the city or other urban areas so I'm spoiled, I admit. Thanks for sharing that with me.