"Dealing with race is about educating white folks." -Dean.

The Boston Globe ^ | 1/2/2004 | D.Z. Jackson

[Heatseeker]

There appears to be some sort of magnetic attraction between Dean's foot and his mouth.

LOL. Every time I think Dean can't say anything more stupid than he just has, he does.

[visualops]

His parent's home was on Park Avenue, that isn't the Upper West Side. Park Ave. is East Side.
The upper West Side pre-1980's real estate boom was a mix of Cuban, Puerto Rican, Black, White etc. It was also largely a haven for artists, musicians and actors. It didn't start getting gentrified til about 1982 or so. Dean was long gone by then anyway.

[SauronOfMordor]

Sure, there is an underclass in this demographic. Then again, there's one in the white demographic, too.

The problem is that the white underclass seems mostly out in trailer parks in rural areas, while the black underclass seems mostly in urban areas.

Middle-class whites see more of underclass blacks than they do of underclass whites, even if it's just having to drive thru underclass urban areas

[SauronOfMordor]

I spent a few hours per week last semester at a low income, almost totally white, elementary school. It was an eye opener! Getting ANY cooperation from those parents was like pulling teeth.

For a large percentage of poor people, it's not that they have bad attitudes because they're poor -- they're poor BECAUSE they have bad attitudes

[Dianna]

For a large percentage of poor people, it's not that they have bad attitudes because they're poor -- they're poor BECAUSE they have bad attitudes

Well, yes. I would assume that is true for white and black people. Where did the attitude come from? WHAT, actually, is it? Is it a belief that you cannot get ahead because someone is determined to keep you down? I can see that black people could easily feel that way if it is what they are told by their family and society (and some are being taught this). Is it the same for the white underclass? Who are they blaming their troubles on? The rich? Minorities?

Is it something else? Maybe a rejection of the value of hard work and being accountable?

Like I said, this was shocking to me. I grew up lower middle class and our parents were very ambitious for us. They didn't demand college, but by damn, you were going to have skills and be a responsible person. Through my adulthood, I have NEVER met a parent who hasn't had a desire to see their children achieve and encouraged it.

I don't know what the problem is exactly, much less an idea of how to combat it.

[SauronOfMordor]

The problem with figuring out what percentage of blacks are middle class, is that there is no common definition of "middle class". To one person, anybody who can afford their own place to live qualifies. To another, you're only "middle-class" if you can afford your own home and a reasonably-late-model car ("afford to", not "choose to have").

[Jorge]

He's always bragging Wyclef Jean is his favorite musician.

Right. Could you picture Dean at a Wyclef Jean concert?
With that stiff-as-a-board posture, rolled up sleeves and that plastic smile? Please.

[sunryse]

>Black median household income in 1997 was $25,050. That >income level placed about 40 percent of black households >in the middle class, compared with about 60 percent of >white households.

Hmm, 60/40=100% When did we wittle down to two races?

[4everontheRight]

How about Deanbags...I used to sit on one of those in the 70's. It was full of mindless airy bulk...just like Dean!!!
(I want a copyright on this one!!!)

[ninenot]

While the Republicans have baldly capitulated to racism in modern presidential campaigns, such as appearing at Bob Jones University

Look MHKing, I know that Walt Williams has issued my "go home absolved" card--but is this REALLY racism--speaking at Bob Jones U???

[SauronOfMordor]

I think 75% could be high --- however there are different definitions of middle class and it might depend on which is used.

The problem is that the whole discussion of "class" was gotten going by Marx, and he never really defined his terms very well. The middle class were the people between the "wealthy" and the "working class"

The operational definition I go by goes something like this:

• If you work for a living, and have enough to pay the rent on an apartment and cheap transport to work, then you're working class
• If you make enough to own significant property (your own home or condo, a late-model car, a stock portfolio to be your retirement nest egg), and you can occasionally purchase the services of others to make your life easy (cleaning lady to come in on the weekend, guy to mow the lawn, going out to restaurant's and letting somebody else do the cooking) then you are middle-class
• If you have enough assets that you can maintain a middle-class standard of living without working, and have one or more full-time employee/servants then you are wealthy

[speekinout]

WHAT, actually, is it? Is it a belief that you cannot get ahead because someone is determined to keep you down?

I think it's not being shown how to work. Like you, I grew up lower middle class. But my parents always told us that if we wanted better, we had to get more education and work for it.

The majority of the poor today are people who don't hear that message. Young people who don't have even high school diplomas, teens who have babies, and young people who get diverted by drugs are all likely to wind up poor.

We have to find a way to have fathers, or even just male mentors, convince these kids to look for a good life. Women can't raise good kids without men. And, yes, I know I will get hammered for saying that.

[mhking]

Look MHKing, I know that Walt Williams has issued my "go home absolved" card--but is this REALLY racism--speaking at Bob Jones U???

It goes back to what I've said about the Soul Patrol delivering our message for us. As long as the "gatekeepers" (i.e., the mainstream media and the remainder of the left wing) say that BJU is an "evil, racist institution," the masses will believe it.

[Tall_Texan]

I think Derrick Z. Jackson is:

a) probably black

and

b) on Kerry's payroll.

There seems to be a lot of questionable Dean quotes lately coming courtesy of the Boston Globe. (i.e. the "Jesus" story, etc.) The way you go about attacking someone in your own party is to sneak a few landmine quotes into what seems like a sympathetic story. The point is to turn the stomachs of Dean supporters and cause them to start looking elsewhere. First, they cast him as religious, then cast him as boob regarding race relations, next will probably be something about some tax cuts or budget cuts on a program most Dems support.

[FITZ]

The definition I usually use is:

If you aren't working or working only part-time or seasonal jobs and require government handouts, you're poor. Or if you're spending is more than your income and you're worth is a negative number, you're poor ---- which means even if you make $40,000 a year, if you are deep in debt, in danger of foreclosure, you are close to being poor. I've known people who made even more than that who ended up in bankrupcy.

If you basically can work to meet your expenses, you're middle class ---- some people can make $50,000 and pile up debt and are living pay check to pay check --- some can make $20,000 but live within their means and can save up some money.

If you don't need to work and can live off your investments or trust funds, then you're rich.

I think it's too hard to define with any set income ---- $15,000 in Tennessee and your parents left you a good inheritance is different than $15,000 in California and you get no help from parents and no money ever just falls your way. $20,000 if you have parents help with a down payment for a house and provide free babysitting is different than $20,000 and you have to do it all on your own.

You could make $40,000 --- live in a $3000 mobile home you paid for long ago, drive a 15 year old good-running car, and spend very little and end up rich in a short time.

[FITZ]

Median isn't average though --- I wonder what the average incomes would show for each group.

[Arpege92]

Jelly "Dean" is really really really stupid!

[hunter112]

Wouldn't they be Deanie-Babies?

Naw, babies are cute and lovable, nobody respects weenies! Especially, Deanie-weenies!

Hmm, still looking for a sufficiently cutting name for Dean's blatherings. Somebody will come up with one, there's a few new ones every week.

[King Prout]

Yep Dean old bean, keep running your suck. Everytime you open that cesspool in the middle of your face another Right Wing Fanatic is born :)

ok, that beats my tagline hollow!

[weegee]