Immigration Reform Considered After Ridge Hints at Amnesty

Fox ^ | 12-26-04 | Peter Brownfeld

[JustPiper]

WASHINGTON

[Klickitat]

I have to get in at least one Tancredo bump.

[TheDon]

As a CA citizen were you a supporter of Prop 187?

Absolutely.

Since then what strides in policy have taken place. Do you still pay for every "undocumented immigrant" who utilizes public services? What about jail overcrowding? Does your state deport Mexicans after they serve time? CA and INS has had almost 10 years to learn from Prop 187. What have we learned.....to get a grip?

We have learned that massive illegal immigration causes some states to have financial problems which doesn't get on the radar at the federal level. So, let's bring the illegal aliens above board so we aren't paying for this problem all by ourselves!

More importantly, let's change the immigration laws to reflect what we are willing to enforce. Millions of illegal aliens over several decades is all the evidence that is required to prove we aren't willing to properly enforce existing immigration laws.

[AlBondigas]

Interesting article...but maybe deceptive.
It seems to emphasize "vegitables" vs. "fruits".
Maybe annecdotal, but where I live.....chase off the illegals & the citrus & avos would rot on the trees cuz there's noone else to pick 'em.

[FITZ]

I am really beginning to wonder if it is about time where people somewhere off in the future will look back and say, "Why didn't they leave? Why did they stay? Couldn't they see what was happening?"

It's kind of like the Soviet Union though. You can try to force all these countries into one big union and have a lot of Socialism trying to prop up this artificial union --- but eventually it's all going to break down. I always thought it was interesting how after 40 some years, those countries like Poland just went back to their original borders. See --- I'm ultimately an optimist.

[tertiary01]

I think that primarily, we need to decrease the demand for illegals. A freeing up of the child labor laws, so our own youth can get a job, would be a start.

Here in Napa Valley the place is awash in illegals from Sept until Dec for the harvest. They usually go home for a month around Christmas,(most years, but this is not one of them), then come back for the pruning of the vines in Jan-March. From March until the end of May they help provide freeze protection for the vineyards in susceptible areas, mainly through independent contractors.

I befriended an illegal boy last year who I have not seen since he went "home" last year with his uncle. I really do hope he is Okay. He was a wealth of information regarding employment patterns among the illegals. He said that Las Vegas casinos and hotels are the primary target in the winter for illegal employment. If that did not work out then they would head up to the vineyards (which extend all the way up California now) for the pruning of the vines. When that petered out they would try to get day labor, work with vineyard development or maintenance companies that take care of all those vineyards owned by the many absentee "viticulturalists" (many are movie stars and Hollywood producers)or work for various businesses and Mexican restaurants as this boy was doing.

Since moving to Napa in the early seventies, I have seen it transform from pears, prunes, horses and cows, to an almost total fixation with wine grapes and wineries. As the vineyards grew, so did the numbers of illegals. This is an industry that is totally dependent on illegal immigrants and has a hugh lobby in Sacramento and Washington. Remember that when you drink wine.

[Hoverbug]

DO, I agree with everything you say except this:

Arnold and George are going to have some splaining to do, if they don't get with the program and protect our borders.

Nope. They'll just say, "I told you that's how I would handle illegal immigration before you voted for me, and you still voted for me. If you don't like it, don't vote for me again."

You will then be placed in the box again by being threatened with the Dem candidate. You know, "a vote for a third party is a vote for Dean/Hillary/your boogeyman's name here!!!"

Or, as in Arnold's case, "Sure he wants amnesty, but a conservative can't win, and a vote for McClintock is a vote for Bustamante."

And people adamantly against open borders and amnsety will vote for, and put into office with their vote, the open borders candidate.

Because everyone in America is being taught not to stand up for what is right, but instead to cower in fear and vote for the lesser of two evils.

Hb

[Klickitat]

"And that's exactly what opened my eyes right after 9/11."

9-11 opened my eyes to the immigration issue too. Before that immigration wasn't even on my radar. After reading about how the terrorists overstayed their visas and that they could get drivers licenses, I started doing research on the web and finding out more and more about how bad things have been allowed to become.

[Zipporah]

There are several reasons..one reason is that the employers offers employment to illegal aliens at a depressed wage which guarantees that Americans won't accept such occupations because the wages are so low... Now the argument will be that prices of food will go up ..but consider the cost to Americans due to social programs to the illegals.. and the cost of increased crime due to illegals (MUCH greater than the general population)..

[Klickitat]

"Because everyone in America is being taught not to stand up for what is right, but instead to cower in fear and vote for the lesser of two evils."

Yeah, it used to be the dems were taking us down the highway to hell, while the repubs were taking the scenic route. Lately I get the feeling they've gotten off the back roads, and now we're in the fast lane.

[Hoverbug]

LOL!!! Not only that, but they're racing each other!

Hb

[superloser]

Oh, I'll be writing in Tancredo all right. I may even write in Tancredo in the general election if this amnesty proposal doesn't include the following:

1) No path to citizenship for the illegal alien or his offspring/family.
2) No right to petition for a temporary visa for anyone but immediate family.
3) Barred from all public assistance.
4) Extremely enhanced border management - by this I mean putting military patrols on the southern border.
5) A change in the law that currently misinterprets the 14th Amendment

Without all of that, this is a joke. Ordinarily, the only amnesty I would sign on for is a Singapore-style one where they have six months to clear out or face 20 years at hard labor, however, I'm willing to throw a bone but the bone is very sparse in terms of meat.

[AlBondigas]

Each sector needs to be looked at individually.
My point: w/o illegals the citrus & avos would't be picked...regardless of wage.

[winker]

I am a life long TEXICAN AKA Texan myself and I know like you that the only thing that will work is continual Perserverence & Determination ....Keep spreading the Word!

[Willie Green]

I saw an article that I believe was posted by Willie Green about the continuing effort to merge the western hemisphere into one economy which went into some detail about the effort which has been going on for many years. I did a search but couldn't find it.

Ewwwwwww. I post a LOT of those...
So I don't know which one you're referring to.
But here's a suggestion: Instead of searching for a word in the title of the article, change the selection of the search box on the latest posts page to "by Keyword". Then use a keyword like "NAFTA" or "CAFTA" or "FTAA" --- something like that. It should pull up a list of posted articles that deal with those issues.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

[Zipporah]

Maybe looking to history..back to Henry Ford:

now Ford could hire unskilled workers He paid average wages: $2.38 for a nine hour day. Workers hated the assembly line and turnover reached over 300%

in 1914 Ford began to offer selected workers $5 a day and an eight hour day--about twice the going rate in Detroit at the time. At one point fire hoses had to be used to disperse the mob of applicants around the Highland Park plant.

Between 1914 and 1916, the company's profits doubled from $30 million to $60 million.

Ford did believe that the gains made by improving techniques of production should be passed on to society in three ways--to stockholders through dividends, to consumers through lower prices, and to labor through higher wages.

[AlBondigas]

Ol' Henry's experiment is widely documented.
Are you suggesting a corollary w/ citrus picking ?
The tasks, working conditions, etc are not even remotely similar.

[Zipporah]

Now why would you say that Americans would not take such jobs?

[Regulator]

But how to alert people without looking hysterical? I don't know the answer to that one..

We need to say that in all emails, faxes, comments to radio, TV, etc. Eventually someone will pick up on it.

The phrase "amnesty for 40 million Mexicans" will jar a lot more people than "amnesty for the 3 million Mexicans" that you hear Ridge et al spouting. Which is a weird thing for them to say, when you consider that they now admit to 10-12 million here illegally in the first place.

[douglas1]

OH you were lucky enough to see LA as truly a clean beautiful city ,whenever I see old movies with all the areas out there, I know it has all changed ,they the mexicans have taken over whole parts of the areas and anybody who has been there recently know it is just awful, I feel bad for you but dont worry we are on the downhill slide here too in my beloved RENO they have taken over whole neighborhoods it is getting to be a toilet, I wish we were not in the same boat.

[Regulator]

Gosh, I hadn't thought about that. Guatemalans using fraud and the Mexican birth certificate mill (Mexican "documents" = joke) to get in on the free for all.

And Salvadorans, and Nicarauguans, and and and...all of South America.

I'm buying all these old History channel DVD's of WWII, anything from the 60's, and old TV shows so I can show my son what the country looked like when I grew up. I'm not sure if I can handle his anger when he says, "Dad...how come I have to live in Mexico when you got to live in the U.S.?"