Regarding Freeper Obit. TrappedInLiberalHell and Depression

self | Self

[joesbucks]

The problems of depression and despair.

[CounterCounterCulture]

Suicide is selfish.

Most decisions are motivated by selfishness. That is the natural state of man. Of course we ought to be better, to strive in the spirit to overcome the natural man. But we often fail.

Suicide is no more selfish than ten thousand other decisions each of us makes in lifetime. It is permanent, however, and is the one decision that denies all other decisions forever.

I don't understand the anger others express when someone commits suicide. I feel deep sadness, frustration, futility, and humility over the human condition--but not anger.

Good points.

It is man's natural instinct to survive. It is also instinctive to avoid/reduce pain. Usually they work together, but suicidal thoughts puts those instincts against each other.

It is also instinctive to love and be loved. Without either, a.k.a., love denied, it causes great pain and anguish. The longer it goes, the deeper the cut, the worse it gets.

Some turn to medicine/alcohol/drugs to relieve symptoms, but often it's like putting a band-aid on a severed arm, and doesn't do anything to solve the problems, but rather complicate them.

[PFKEY]

That we are and isn't it wonderful. I'll keep you in my prayers.

Also I will send you a freepmail to a rather useful website.

[cyborg]

Yes that's it. I just didn't have the link. Glad you found it.

[stands2reason]

I agree. In the depths of my depression, I would think about things (typically philosophical--I was trying to "work it out" by myself) and I would tell my husband these things, and I remember asking him, "Is this logical? Does this make sense?" Because I couldn't get "outside" myself to see things clearly.

[Luke Skyfreeper]

It is wrong and I feel like I need to say - hey - don;t kill yourself - it's selfish. What if my posts stop one person.

Once again, you show that you really don't understand the problem. I'm not being unkind to you in saying this, it's just abundantly obvious.

There is as much chance of your comments about suicide being selfish stopping somebody as there is of my winning the lottery. It could happen, of course, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Of course suicide is selfish. People who commit suicide generally do so as an attempt to solve their own problems ("own" = "self"), believing that this is the only solution left to them.

Suicide, in its way, is not illogical: there is a problem of pain that is so enormous it has to be stopped, and so deep that one can no longer even think about whether the proposed solution is selfish or not. Imagine that your hand is on fire. You only want the pain to end. Selfishness or unselfishness is really not something you think very much about.

If you want to keep somebody from committing suicide, give them hope. Give them a solution. Tell them, at least, where they can find hope. And yes, hope is there. Many of us have been to the brink of utter despair, only to find our way back from it. How? Many ways, and different things work for different people. Prayer, encouragement, accountability, medication, inspiration, therapy, the thought that we HAVE to continue, we CAN'T check out, for the sake of our children or other loved ones. But if you think that simply telling somebody that "suicide is a selfish act" is likely to be of any real help to anybody, you're just kidding yourself.

[stands2reason]

Dane was trolling on this thread AND he pinged her to it as a witness.

You are totally offbase on this one.

[Daus]

Does depression necessarily come from doubt, though. Many men who are depressed are actually certain: Certain things will not improve, certain no one loves them, etc

You are correct. The textbooks call this 'Automatic Negative Thinking'. Every thought is negative in nature. It eventually takes it toll.

[stands2reason]

So you've suffered from clinical depression?

[Chad Fairbanks]

Dane was trolling on this thread AND he pinged her to it as a witness.

Well, then I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on this one. I see it as a man trying to be decent, but maybe being a little awkward in it. As such, I will repeat exactly what he posted here, and stand by my opinion that it really is not as bad as people are making it out to be...

Dane Said:

I have been monitoring these two threads and will add my 2 cents worth, FWIW.

Suicide is not noble. I can empathize with TILH's situation, but taking one's life and the pain it causes to his loved ones, in which they will be internally taking the blame for LITH's sucide for years is an inherantly selfish act.

Maybe it is the way our society morphed, where only "me" matters.

Prayers to TILH's family and loved ones.

End Dane

You are totally offbase on this one.

I really don't think I am. While a little gruff, I see Dane as having said a few things that perhaps she needed to hear, whether she believes she needed to hear it or not.

The truth isn't always pretty, but it IS the truth.

[stands2reason]

You don't know what you're talking about Chris' widow was invited to FR by those Freepers who were memorializing him yesterday.

[Chad Fairbanks]

You don't know what you're talking about Chris' widow was invited to FR by those Freepers who were memorializing him yesterday.

Really? Did they back-date her sign-in date, too?

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Respectfully, I think Dane was wrong. Suicide is often about far more than "me", as it was in the case of my own family's experience. If someone gives up their life to save their loved ones harm, embarrassment, and pain - however misguided that decision - it is anything but selfish, and it's frustrating to see that word used over and over again to describe someone like my brother.

[stands2reason]

Is schizophrenia caused by demons as well?

[ClancyJ]

Life is difficult. The more we accept that, the easier it's going to be.

Yes, this is not heaven - this is earth. Yet, we expect it to be heaven. Earth is filled with life, love, death, accidents, sorrows, crying, laughing - all of it - good and bad.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Respectfully, I think Dane was wrong. Suicide is often about far more than "me", as it was in the case of my own family's experience. If someone gives up their life to save their loved ones harm, embarrassment, and pain - however misguided that decision - it is anything but selfish, and it's frustrating to see that word used over and over again to describe someone like my brother.

I've never described your brother in those terms, and because I know the story I never would...

[stands2reason]

Then, too, other people's problems are very easy to deal with.

Bump!

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Thank you, Chad - I appreciate that. It was Dane's quote in your post that I was commenting on - and when you referred to his post as "the truth", that got my attention.

[Chad Fairbanks]

And, perhaps in this case it was the truth. Not in the case of your brother, however, and probably countless others as well - but in many, it is the truth.

No offense intended :0)

[JudyB1938]

What did your "dead legs" feel like? That's how I have been describing my own legs. Since I am also bi-polar, I would be "relieved" to find out that's the reason my legs feel that way - instead of the potentially more disabling issues (diabetes and sciatic nerve problems).

[stands2reason]

Yeah, to tell the truth, I don't remember a lot (short-term memory loss over time becomes long term meory loss)-- mostly I remember finding a stud in the wall so I could beat my head against it and not go through the wall. I remember sitting on the bathroom floor in the dark--cold tile still gives me the creeps. Throwing up green bile every morning--actually I remember too much...