Death of obese man (who assaulted police) ruled "homicide"

Fox News | 12/3/03 | Fox News

[zlala]

The Coroner just read a statement saying the direct cause of his death was the struggle with the police; or that them trying to subdue him and the struggle cause his death. Contributing factors included the drugs and his weight and heart condition.

[Ol' Sparky]

Acts of self-defense are not homicides. Perhaps, it must be investigated as a potential homicide, but it seems a little premature for the coroner to label it as one.

[WackyKat]

I realize that the "community activists" (race hustlers) will use the word "homicide" to whip up their followers, many of whom are too illiterate to even read the newspaper, much less understand a legal term

And yes, a riot may result- I hope it won't

But I'm not going to criticize the coroner for being a straightshooter and calling it as he saw it

[lepton]

How about some kind of dart gun like they use with animals that will put them out.

You're going to inject a druggie with tranquilizers?

Aside from the substance inter-action issue, tranqs are not magic. They do not work instantly, and I don't know about you, but if I'm shot with a tranq, I'm likely to be considerably more aggressive in the immediate aftermath - and I'd argue that induced intoxication can certainly be a mitigating factor in whatever I would do after that point.

Obviously the man being struck didn't think the hitting was unnecessary...he kept fighting.

[xzins]

Good Lord. Why would anybody try to combine angel dust and cocaine with White Castle Burgers?

White Angel Castle Onion Burger (WACOB) Dust

Deadly combination....probably a WMD! This should be classified to keep it out of the hands of Al Qaeda.

Tom Daschle will be getting WACOB Dust in the mail. LOL!!

[ican'tbelieveit]

Because of the struggle, there was an increase in adrenaline, heart rate, stressing the heart. I am sure they can measure the hormone levels in the blood and get a fairly accurate time of death.

The coroner stressed that the ruling of homicide does not implicate inappropriate behavior by the police. But he had to choose one of 4 causes. The other 3 would not have been accurate.

[mewzilla]

But I'm not going to criticize the coroner for being a straightshooter and calling it as he saw it.

I'm just wondering if he needs glasses.

[Rummyfan]

Not to hijack the thread, but.... showdown between the Ravens and Bengals Sunday. Billick vs Lewis. Should be interesting. Who would've thunk the Ravens capable of putting up 85 points in two games?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Homicide is of three kinds:

There is only one kind of drug/obesity/stupidity-induced heart attack.

[mewzilla]

But other problems can bring on an irregular heartbeat. I should know :) And since I don't know what caused his prior incidences, I'm just wondering how the coroner can pin the ireeg heartbeat on the struggle.

[tracer]

Positional asphyxia resulting from incorrectly restraining and positioning a grossly obese, drugged-up, and "winded"(due to inadequate respiratory and cardiac capacity)subject most likely is the proximate cause of death in this case.

If such is the case, the huge difference between "murder" and crappy police training and procedure should be explained to the DA and to jury -- in terms that even they can understand -- if things get that far.

And it doesn't take "Quincy" to figure that out, Dr. Coroner.

BTW, when does this coroner come up for re-election??

[lepton]

Acts of self-defense are not homicides

Any death caused by the actions of a human are "homocide"...regardless of justification. It's just that few people interact with the terminology enough to understand how broad it is.

[mewzilla]

It's not about reasonableness. It's about accuracy. And I, for one, would like more info on how the coroner came to his conclusion.

[Connservative]

You can bet the house that the black 'leaders' in Cincy will do whatever they can to stir things up over this.

I live here in Cincy and fondly remember when I was afraid to step out of the door during the '01 riots. Also, a dear friend of mine is CPD officer; I pray every morning that he never has to pull any weapon on a black perp.

Sad P.S. WHO-DEY!!!!

[Hildy]

Obviously the man being struck didn't think the hitting was unnecessary...he kept fighting.

That's the point. A drugged up person is going to keep coming at you. Even a shot to the foot would be better than beating somebody to death, don't you think?

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

It's Malice Green all over again.

This iconic portrait of Malice Green was created by artist Bennie White at the location where Green was slain while in police custody. Green's death and the subsequent trial and conviction of two Euro American police officers touched off a huge media spasm that clawed at the underlying racial tensions that plague our community.Link

[HenryLeeII]

On Fox New's website now (12/3 @ 2:34 p.m. Eastern):

Hamilton County Coroner Carl Parrott said Nathaniel Jones (search), 41, suffered from an enlarged heart, obesity and had intoxicating levels of cocaine, PCP and methanol in his blood.

Parrott said the death will be ruled a homicide, but added that such a ruling "should not be interpreted as implying inappropriate behavior or the use of excessive force by police."

Jones' death certificate will list a cause of death as an irregular heart beat because of a stress reaction from the violent struggle, Parrott said.

Of course the Jesse Jackson Scam Artist Brigade will leave out the little nugget about the coroner's report not implying he died because of excessive force, etc. I even heard one "community activist" deny he was a drug user despite the blood tests showing evidence of cocaine and PCP use. What I want to know is how he got the methanol in his system. And why is an obese person with an enlarged heart eating at White Castle? That in itself for a healthy person is a death wish!

[mewzilla]

But shooting to wound is not procedure.

[xzins]

A lawyer on here (p-marlowe) has said it isn't a homicide.

It's a PC response by the coroner. Now I can't go watch Univ Cincy Basketball or do the Christmas scene on Fountain Square.

It's a shame.

X

[Squantos]

Agree....Morgue Minion incites riot is next headline.....Stay Safe !

[ican'tbelieveit]

It was a time issue. He attacked them immediately, they needed to respond at once. There wasn't time, from a safety pov, to wait for someone with another weapon to arrive.

But even in that situation, the use of a taser could have triggered the same response. It wasn't the beating that caused his death, it was the physical struggle. So regardless of whether he was fighting against their nightsticks or their taser he would have been stressing his heart.