Running down a footnote to assassination

Ventura County Star ^ | 11-23-2003 | Colleen Cason

[whammerjammer]

Running down a footnote to assassination

By Colleen Cason November 23, 2003

In the one day and four decades since President Kennedy died in Dallas, we Americans have been served a cafeteria of conspiracy theories.

Almost nothing is too tough for some to swallow. They take heaping helpings of the Mafia and CIA, garnish with an evil cabal of Texas businessmen and sprinkle on LBJ and Castro.

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A recent ABC News poll indicates 70 percent of Americans believe JKF's assassination was a plot.

Only 22 percent accept the official finding that Lee Oswald acted alone.

Most Americans favor conspiracy scenarios even without knowledge of the oracle of Oxnard -- the mysterious whispering woman who predicted Kennedy's death 20 minutes before shots rang out in Dealey Plaza.

This tantalizing tidbit ran in the former Star-Free Press the day after the assassination. The Los Angeles Times and Associated Press carried similar accounts.

According to the unbylined story in The Star, a call came into the old General Telephone office on C Street in Oxnard at 10:05 a.m. Pacific Standard Time Nov. 22.

Two supervisors manning the switchboard overheard a woman whisper: "The president will be killed at 10:10."

Moments later the woman reportedly revised her statement, saying softly "It won't be 10 after 10; it will be 10:30."

The operators dismissed it as a prank -- until news reached them that the president indeed had been shot around 10:30 California time

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Our ears don't hear where a sound is heading - NEVER - we hear the sound at it's source.

Unless you are hearing an echo and your ears happen to be closer to the echo than the source.

[Senator Goldwater]

"Or have I overlooked another film all these years?"

Yes, you have. The Magruder film was actually a webcast, which is why I always remember where I was when it happended.

The view from the stockade fence was spot on.

[archy]

Several years after the day, Look or Post Mag. ran some "never before released" pics. It was very clear that many of the crowd were pointing toward the knoll. Cops were hurrying in it's direction.

I always liked the report that Look ran about J Edgar Hoover. On one occasion involving Jimmy Hoffa, Attorney General Robert Kennedy failed to reach FBI Director Hoover, as Hoover had ordered his personal secretary to hold all calls- and she did. Enraged, RFK had Hoover summoned and ordered him to have a direct telephone line installed so that he could be contacted at the attorney general's pleasure, or RFK was going to go to his brother to request the FBI director's replacement.

The day before the assassination, while on a trip out of town, the FBI director had the telephone taken out. His trip was to Texas, if not Dallas itself.

-archy-/-

[m1-lightning]

Unless you are hearing an echo and your ears happen to be closer to the echo than the source.

witnesses said the sound from the knoll came milleseconds AFTER the shot from the building which would give it an indication of an echo, but when you are in panic, it all sounds the same. The second shooter theory has been a conspiracy that's been overplayed.

[aristeides]

The day before the assassination, while on a trip out of town, the FBI director had the telephone taken out. His trip was to Texas, if not Dallas itself.

Hoover is reported to have attended the party at the Dallas home of oilman Clint Murchison the evening of Nov. 21, 1963 that LBJ and Richard Nixon are also said to have attended. In fact, the party was supposedly in Hoover's honor. (And LBJ's mistress said in her book that at that party LBJ told her that after the next day the Kennedys would never embarrass him again.)

[gatex]

"At least one eyewitness saw him do it."

How did the witness determine his height and weight ?

[Timesink]

Leadpenny: It does matter. It matters because IF there was a conspiracy and a cover-up, then the United States of America had a change in the Office of the President that is not prescribed in The Constitution of the United States.

Archy: Indeed. It"s almost as accurate to say that it doesn't really matter whether president Kennedy was murdered with the foreknowledge of those who replaced him in office because whether true or not, if more than half of the American people believe that they are governed by the inheritors of such a government, it's certainly unworthy of defense at any personal cost or sacrifice.

The Constitution worked perfectly in November 1963, and would have worked perfectly even if there had been a 100% proven government conspiracy. The document is quite clear: If the President dies, the VP becomes President, period. If it were to turn out that, say, it appears the VP had the President offed in order to become President himself, then the new President would then be impeached (and then probably put on regular trial afterwards like anyone else for murder, conspiracy to commit, or whatever charges the evidence supported).

The two issues, constitutionally speaking, are entirely separate, thus rendering irrelevant the sort of unanswerable, meaningless Möbius Strip questions about the "legitimacy" of all post-conspiracy/coverup administrations, such as the one postulated above. LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton and Bush 43 were, and are, as legitimate as JFK and all Presidents before him. And that will never change.

As a sidenote, I'll point out that to those of us for whom JFK was before our time (who already make up a large percentage of the American population and whose numbers are growing by the second as the numbers of those on the other side are shrinking by the second), the events of November 1963 are but ancient history. They are occasionally fascinating to discuss, but we consider them of ZERO relevance to today's government. That 2/3 of the public thinks there was a conspiracy is just barely more meaningful than the data as to how many more people drink Coke than Pepsi. It is not something that makes us think our entire system of government and our nation itself is some kind of fraudulent house of cards that is both deserving of and doomed to collapse.

[lasereye]

Some people SAW the head shot before they heard it and their brain just convinced them it was from the knoll and not behind them at the book depository.

I have no idea why seeing the head shot would cause them to direct their visual attention to the grassy knoll. The people who heard the shots coming from the grassy knoll were standing in FRONT of the grassy knoll and couldn't even see it when they first heard the sound of the shots. What was there about seeing Kennedy shot in front of them that would direct their eyes to something BEHIND them? When you look at a plane that's a mile up, the difference in location between where it was when it first was in earshot and where it is when you look up is only a slight turn of the head. So your analogy makes no sense.

[gatex]

"At least one eyewitness saw him do it."

From Warren Report, page 4---

"At 12:15 Tippit radioed that he had moved as directed and would bae available for any emergency. By this time the police radio had broadcast several messages alerting the police to the suspect described by Brennan at the scene of the assassination -- a slender white male, about 30 years old, 5 feet 10 inches and weighing about 165 pounds."

Brennan was the witness. There a box in front of the window used to prop the rifle. How could height and weight be estimated ?

[aristeides]

If it were to turn out that, say, it appears the VP had the President offed in order to become President himself, then the new President would then be impeached (and then probably put on regular trial afterwards like anyone else for murder, conspiracy to commit, or whatever charges the evidence supported).

And just how do you go about persuading a majority of the House and two-thirds of the Senate that the VP (who now has all the powers of the presidency) had the President offed (especially if the Director of the FBI is in on the conspiracy)?

[lasereye]

Several years after the day, Look or Post Mag. ran some "never before released" pics. It was very clear that many of the crowd were pointing toward the knoll. Cops were hurrying in it's direction.

Numerous people standing in front of the knoll testified to the Warren Commission that they heard shots coming from behind them. At least one police officer ran to the area behind the fence which the knoll was in front of.

[archy]

Yes, you have. The Magruder film was actually a webcast, which is why I always remember where I was when it happended.

The view from the stockade fence was spot on.

What! They've put you in the stockade AGAIN? Well, maybe someone will send you a cake with a hacksaw in it, and you can cut your way through the fence....

[Timesink]

And just how do you go about persuading a majority of the House and two-thirds of the Senate that the VP (who now has all the powers of the presidency) had the President offed (especially if the Director of the FBI is in on the conspiracy)?

If Congress truly believes they were involved in a murder conspiracy, they could simply impeach them both. For all the games we play regarding special investigative commissions and independent counsels, at the end of the day impeachment is a purely political act; if enough members of Congress want any civil officer removed, all they have to do is muster up enough votes, evidence or no evidence. Having the FBI director in on the conspiracy may be enough to prevent a criminal trial from going anywhere, but it wouldn't stop either of them from being tossed out on their butts.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

At least one eyewitness saw him do it.

For a long time I used to think Oswald was a patsy until I saw this picture taken on the sixth floor seconds after the final shot:

The "face in the window" is definitely Oswald as far as I'm concerned. He might have had some help on the knoll, that's possible, but patsy he was not.

[AppyPappy]

It would seem far fetched that anyone could fire rounds from the grassy knoll and not be seen.

[lasereye]

Why? There was quite a few trees and a fence. Everyone was looking at the motorcade.

[Charles Martel]

The Magruder film was actually a webcast, which is why I always remember where I was when it happended. The view from the stockade fence was spot on.

A tiny webcam concealed in the stockade fence, no doubt. I just *knew* that time travel was involved.

I've also long suspected that a "mirror universe" LBJ was behind it all. People from that alternate reality move up in rank by assassinating their superiors, you know. Hey, it's as plausible as any other theory! ;-)

[archy]

I've also long suspected that a "mirror universe" LBJ was behind it all. People from that alternate reality move up in rank by assassinating their superiors, you know. Hey, it's as plausible as any other theory! ;-)

Couldn't agree more, boss. By the way, have some of these cookies I baked just for you. I'd eat one, but I'm on a diet....

[The Good Doctor]

True, but incomplete analysis. We also perceive sound reflecting (echoing) from other structures as the source of that sound, even though the true source may be from a completely different direction. So the fact that people "heard shots from the grassy knoll", is not at all conclusive that shots actually came from that location.

More conclusive would be to have some physical evidence LIKE A BULLET FIRED FROM SOME GUN OTHER THAN OSWALD'S.

[norton]

And that as well.

Point is that the entire event was SO managed as it unfolded.
Point is that the investigation never tied up any of the loose ends and we are left to debate snippets and rumor.
Point is that AT THE TIME and based on every input I can host, there were two stories running in parallel: the one you saw and the one you were told, the one that seemed even then to be scripted.

I know that eye witnesses are often wrong, sometimes the worst of all evidence; but no hysteria or panic explains the avalanche of strange events that Daley Plaza kicked off.

Added: if a reason is needed, the country threw itself into such a fit of 'shock and woe' over the shooting (except for my US Government professor) that ANY subsequent plot twist could be accommodated. Huge numbers of people were terrified and expecting worse to come - the conspiracy theories were already in being depending on your starting point.

And, to the good doctor, would a sound be more likely to echo/rebound from an eight story building back toward its source, or from a slight rise in ground level back toward the building?